Hated it

[eyeresist]

The thing I didn't think was done well in ENT was the exploration.
It seemed to me that the universe had already been discovered in ENT. In TOS in some episodes you got the impression that Kirk and his crew were the first beings from the Federation out there.

In ENT while the overall mission was one of discovery I don't recall a time when they were discovering anything new. I think Mayweather's Mum had beat the NX to many places. And of course the Vulcans and Andorians were always there before them.

I agree that the NX-01 was largely exploring "known space", but it was known to the Vulcans, not the Terrans! There were plenty of firsts for the crew to experience before venturing outside what would eventually be Federation territory.

I agree the "boomers" complicated the issue - the extent and limitations of their travels were never really explained.

 

[fireproof78]

I know the show was fair for its day with having people like Uhura, Zulu and Chekov there at all, but it was still (from my perspective) about three male middle aged military officers. Not interested.

Middle aged ? By what definition ? They were in their thirties.

Just Googling it.

Apparently "Middle Age" is defined by various sources as starting at either 35, 40 or 45 and lasting till 55, 60 or 65.
To me it always meant 40-65. And I never meant the latter part of middle aged in regards to Kirk, Spock and McCoy, but the time between 40-50, still in their prime, but already "finished" in their development and somewhat seasoned.

DeForest Kelley was 46.

Nimoy and Shatner only were 35 but to me they always looked older, might be the make-up effects of the time (though I also suspect a bit of the lifestyle of the time, people back then were not very healthy in general)
Unhealthy skin can make a person appear much older than they really are.

I think Data would have, but I understand the perspective on the three main characters. I think Worf could have too, but not as a Klingon, but a warrior-code security officer.

Thanks for understanding. I'm not trying to badmouth anybody's favorite characters or show, just explain why I personally didn't like them.

Data in TOS.... I can't imagine someone as sweet natured as Data in TOS.
Same with Worf, we would have gotten Season 1 Worf, some stoic guy 100% defined by his culture standing in the background a lot.
But later Worf? Who tries to console a grieving child, struggles with being a father and had the first believable long-term relationship in Star Trek? I have difficulty seeing that in TOS.

Well, this will likely be an agree to disagree post but I'm not sure why having someone who was compassionate is out of step with TOS, given that we see McCoy helping with an infant child, Kirk becoming a role model to several children, as well as consoling the wife of a recently deceased officer, and other moments like that.

Again, recognizing that it isn't for everyone, but every character had their sweet moments, even in TOS

 

[Commishsleer]

The thing I didn't think was done well in ENT was the exploration.
It seemed to me that the universe had already been discovered in ENT. In TOS in some episodes you got the impression that Kirk and his crew were the first beings from the Federation out there.

In ENT while the overall mission was one of discovery I don't recall a time when they were discovering anything new. I think Mayweather's Mum had beat the NX to many places. And of course the Vulcans and Andorians were always there before them.

I agree that the NX-01 was largely exploring "known space", but it was known to the Vulcans, not the Terrans! There were plenty of firsts for the crew to experience before venturing outside what would eventually be Federation territory.

I agree the "boomers" complicated the issue - the extent and limitations of their travels were never really explained.

The only time that I felt the NX crew were 'discovering' anything was when they were fighting against the Xindi. But even when they were in unknown space they hijacked some ship and found a stricken Vulcan vessel out there.

And a lot of the time they had someone spying on them so it felt like kids being let out to play while Mummy watched from the car.
I think Berman wanted to show Archer as a statesman like Picard in TNG, concentrating on the politics rather than boldly going out where no man has gone before. That wasn't even in the theme song for ENT anyway. And politics worked well for TNG so why not try it for ENT.

 

[BillJ]

But later Worf? Who tries to console a grieving child, struggles with being a father and had the first believable long-term relationship in Star Trek? I have difficulty seeing that in TOS.

But that was pretty much exactly when I quit caring about Star Trek. I just didn't care about the relationship drama, I can get that anywhere on TV. I want them to fight green lizard people and outsmart faux-gods. I want Star Trek to be fun.

 

[Smellmet]

I think Star Trek can accommodate both. We see the relationship between the big three for decades, it's only right to see couples stories too. Inbetween tussling with assorted Gorn.

 

[suarezguy]

I thought ST09 was a mixed bag, with Spock pretty good, Kirk pretty bad and the rest leaning to good; I did hate STID, aggravating plot and style.

It's an alternate universe. The original universe is chugging along just fine, and not being affected by the new one.

As a fan of the Trek book series' I have accepted the alternate timelines a while ago, I was just taking into consideration that the movies defined that which was canon, and therefore, rewrote all that was Trek.

Did you even see the first Abrams film? It makes it crystal clear that it is all taking place in an alternate universe that doesn't affect the prime one.

IIRC, that was a character's or two's speculation rather than being clear at all.

You seem to miss the whole alternate timeline that can't exist unless the originals played out exactly as we saw them part of the film. All the events that happened, happened or else there'd be no Spock Prime to come back in time.

They happened once but, "Parallels" aside, Trek has generally if not always used the single timeline idea.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I know the show was fair for its day with having people like Uhura, Zulu and Chekov there at all, but it was still (from my perspective) about three male middle aged military officers. Not interested.

Middle aged ? By what definition ? They were in their thirties.

Just Googling it.

Apparently "Middle Age" is defined by various sources as starting at either 35, 40 or 45 and lasting till 55, 60 or 65.
To me it always meant 40-65.

DeForest Kelley was 46.

Nimoy and Shatner only were 35 but to me they always looked older, might be the make-up effects of the time (though I also suspect a bit of the lifestyle of the time, people back then were not very healthy in general)
Unhealthy skin can make a person appear much older than they really are.

Not too mention, many performers tended to smoke a lot as well....

 

[Dukhat]

IIRC, that was a character's or two's speculation rather than being clear at all.

No, Prime Spock blatantly admitted that history had been changed when he explained to Kirk that in the Prime timeline, Kirk's father survived long enough to see him become captain of the Enterprise. That's not clear to you?

 

[suarezguy]

^The timeline was clearly different but that doesn't mean it's a parallel timeline rather than a single one being rewritten.

 

[Belz...]

Apparently "Middle Age" is defined by various sources as starting at either 35, 40 or 45 and lasting till 55, 60 or 65.

In other words it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Dukhat]

^The timeline was clearly different but that doesn't mean it's a parallel timeline rather than a single one being rewritten.

Point taken, but since this is all fake anyway, the guys who created this fake universe say that it runs parallel to that other fake universe and didn't rewrite it, so I'm inclined to go along with what they say, since, you know, it's all fake.

 

[Franklin]

Apparently "Middle Age" is defined by various sources as starting at either 35, 40 or 45 and lasting till 55, 60 or 65.

In other words it doesn't mean anything.

The older I get, the less it means -- other than pushing the definition of middle age back.

Having the TOS crew deal with age on the screen was a good (and novel) decision on the whole, but I thought they aged them too fast. In an era where we were led to believe people were living productive lives well into what we would consider elderly today, Kirk was put out to pasture before he was even 65.

Picard aged better and probably more realistically for the time. Heck he was a little older than Kirk in GEN and still going strong as captain of the Enterprise.

I'd think that by the 23rd century, 70 would be the new 40.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I'm surprised no on had posted this yet:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZHwxIL9oYo[/yt]​

 

[Orphalesion]

Well, this will likely be an agree to disagree post but I'm not sure why having someone who was compassionate is out of step with TOS, given that we see McCoy helping with an infant child, Kirk becoming a role model to several children, as well as consoling the wife of a recently deceased officer, and other moments like that.

Again, recognizing that it isn't for everyone, but every character had their sweet moments, even in TOS

Haven't seen many of the epsidoes with children in it, he didn't seem much in touch with them in Miri's planet. But I will concede that McCoy and Nurse Chapel were very compassionate when Uhura got her mind wiped. It was one of the scenes of TOS I have seen so far I liked (as scary as the whole idea was)

I also found Uhura's reaction in Mudd's Women (I think) very interesting, how she actually somewhat wishes to get an android body in order to stay young and beautiful forever. I don't think any of the 24th century character would be allowed to have such an opinion.

Not too mention, many performers tended to smoke a lot as well....

Yeop, that's what I meant when I alluded to "bad skin" and "unhealthy lifestyle" smoking wreaks havoc on your complexion!

 

[Ovation]

I also found Uhura's reaction in Mudd's Women (I think) very interesting, how she actually somewhat wishes to get an android body in order to stay young and beautiful forever. I don't think any of the 24th century character would be allowed to have such an opinion.

And that's among the things that makes the 24th century characters less interesting to me. I have enjoyed every iteration of Trek (some more than others) but the 24th century versions were always a bit less compelling.

 

[BillJ]

I also found Uhura's reaction in Mudd's Women (I think)...

"I, Mudd"

 

[Commishsleer]

I also found Uhura's reaction in Mudd's Women (I think) very interesting, how she actually somewhat wishes to get an android body in order to stay young and beautiful forever. I don't think any of the 24th century character would be allowed to have such an opinion.

And that's among the things that makes the 24th century characters less interesting to me. I have enjoyed every iteration of Trek (some more than others) but the 24th century versions were always a bit less compelling.

Troi and Crusher were allowed to talk about their firm boobs in INS but that wasn't until the movies.
Although I think I could have lived without that.

 

[eyeresist]

^ What about Worf's boobs?

I think Berman wanted to show Archer as a statesman like Picard in TNG, concentrating on the politics rather than boldly going out where no man has gone before. That wasn't even in the theme song for ENT anyway. And politics worked well for TNG so why not try it for ENT.

But hasn't George Lucas proved that trade relations can be fascinating?
ENT did actually have a very good "statesman" ep in season 2's "Cease Fire". One of their best IMO.

...Speaking of things people hate

 

[M'Sharak]

^ What about Worf's boobs?

"We do not discuss it with outsiders."

 

[eyeresist]

^