Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Trek

[Knight Templar]

It seems to me the Typhon Pact novels are become the equivalent of the Yuuhzan Vong invasion novels from Star Wars.

And that isn't a compliment. The Vong invasion novels seemed to last forever with a recurring theme of the "heroes" in each novel managing to win a slight tactical victory but nevertheless things getting steadily worse.

That seems alot like the the Typhon Pact novels as well.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I don't think that's a fair assessment of the Typhon Pact books. Yes, there were a couple where things got worse, notably Paths of Disharmony and maybe Zero Sum Game (although that was more things getting worse on a personal level for Bashir), but there were also ones where things got better at the end, like Rough Beasts of Empire and The Struggle Within.

I think a lot of people have a desire to treat the TP books as a single uniform thing, and that's just not what they're supposed to be. The Pact itself was deliberately created to be diverse, to have members who were very different from one another and had different goals and agendas and methods, so that it could be a launching point for a wide range of stories. And it's not a single narrative any more than the various Klingon episodes of TNG/DS9 or the various Maquis episodes of all three 24th-century series were a single narrative.

 

[JD]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Yeah, I'm with Christopher here. I really think the stories and themes of the TP have been way to diverse for the comparison to really work. I haven't read all of the NJO books yet or all of the TP books, but I don't think they have gotten anywhere near that dark yet. Despite what a lot of people are trying to say, I haven't really seen where the post-Destiny book have really been that much darker than what we got before Destiny.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

It was the Yuuhzan Vong Invasion that finally drove me away from Star Wars lit. The Typhon Pact is, if anything, enhancing my enjoyment of Treklit, despite being less than impressed with Zero Sum Game and Seize The Fire...

 

[ATimson]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

I think a lot of people have a desire to treat the TP books as a single uniform thing, and that's just not what they're supposed to be.

Then Pocket's branding failed.

 

[Fer]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Personally, I do think it's a different beast. The Typhon Pact, as a rival political power, is a cold war as opposed to the all-out warfare for survival that the Yuuzhan Vong war was. And for that reason, the Typhon Pact isn't really a power you "defeat." It's a change in the political landscape of the Trek universe, and I'll be surprised if it ever gets "wrapped up" like the Yuuzhan Vong war was.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Then Pocket's branding failed.

The books are selling, aren't they? How is that a failure?

There are probably just as many casual buyers of ST novels who yearn for an interconnected series as those who demand standalone stories.

"The Typhon Pact" branding draws attention to itself, but the books are neither specifying volume numbers nor announcing a number at which the branding will end. The cover art tells the prospective audience what canonical series seems to be being covered. Sounds like a sensible and successful branding to me.

the Typhon Pact isn't really a power you "defeat." It's a change in the political landscape of the Trek universe...

Exactly. And if the Pact falls apart, you still have a similar status quo. I like the fact that there is not really an overwhelming sense that an inevitable "Typhon Wars" debacle is approaching.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

They are similar, though, in that they create one overarching and easily identifiable foe to focus on. Which makes a lot of sense, in both cases; the Star Wars books before the Vong were all over the place chronologically, even within the post-ROTJ period, and as a result tended to wander around not really accomplishing much. SW and ST both realized that, as their respective expanded universes pushed forward into the future, the rate of book publishing was such that it made the most sense to focus the line around a particular conflict.

Yes, that conflict is much more complicated in TrekLit and yes it is of a different tone and yes the individual series are all also continuing under their own banners (except apparently DS9), but I think the motivation is similar. Brand a large swath of the line under the same banner so it's more unified and easier to understand for consumers.

The execution, though, is really what the first post is talking about. I personally liked the NJO, but I can see the complaint; the story stretched out too long, with too much repetition and excessive darkness in the individual novels. Towards that, I can't say as I've seen much repetition in the Typhon Pact stories so far. Paths of Disharmony was pretty dark, more depressing than Destiny in a lot of ways, but Struggle Within really wasn't and any darkness in the other three novels was of a personal character-arc nature that had nothing to do with the ongoing conflict.

I, for one, am extremely fascinated to see what comes next in DRG3 and McCormack's entries.

 

[Methos]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

i actually really enjoyed the Typhon Pact series... apparently i'm in the minority here then lol

M

 

[ATimson]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Then Pocket's branding failed.

The books are selling, aren't they? How is that a failure?

I didn't mean a failure in the sense of "the books aren't selling", but rather, "the message intended isn't what's on the cover."

There are probably just as many casual buyers of ST novels who yearn for an interconnected series as those who demand standalone stories.

Which is why the Typhon Pact branding fails; the books are calling themselves an interconnected series, but not only are they not, per Christopher they aren't intended to be such either. So the branding and what the books are don't match up.

Ideally, the books would've been branded as their own series. If a unifying aesthetic was required, I think something like Gateways would have been better -
clearly associate each book with the respective series, use the parent series' art style and page design, but add a unifying logo and maybe art element.

Instead, Pocket branded the books like Destiny - everything from all the series mushed into one bowl, into what looks like it is one big narrative. (Either a casual reader or a dedicated one will see two books whose cover depicts characters from multiple series, albeit different books depending on which bucket they fall into.)

I'm sure that Marketing said "oh, Destiny sold well, make us more like that," which is why the Typhon Pact branding uses a similar aesthetic. But that's not what the books really are.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Sorry about that. Not meaning to make light of the issue, Knight Templar.

On the serious front, I suppose you could see the NJO and Typhon Pact books as similar in some respects, as regards challenging some of the assumptions of their franchise's setting. Certainly, the Typhon Pact forces a re-evaluation of the Federation's position in the galaxy and some readers are going to be wary of that, or disappointed with what they see as events unfold. But I don't view the new uncertainty regarding the UFP's role and power in the galaxy as a straightforward negative. Nor do I think it breaks with Trek's optimistic vision in general. After all, Trek is supposed to be about exploring new worlds and seeking out new perspectives, and the "Typhon Pact era" gives us a strange new world for the Federation to find its place in. It lets them (hopefully) reaffirm their ideals and their vision in the face of the unknown and the uncertain. Kirk was never one to let risk and danger put a stop to his Trekkin', was he? And fans didn't think the Enterprise flying into danger and facing crises every week made it a depressing ship of the damned. The show was about how and why those dangers or potential dangers were faced, and how our protagonists overcame obstacles and faults. Now it's the Federation's home region that's somewhat risky and dangerous, but the spirit behind the stories remains the same, or so I'd say. Especially seeing that the Pact is a challenge that should provoke self-examination on the Federation's part, raising questions of identity and purpose, challenging self-doubts. They're not just a potential external threat, they serve to fan the flames for familiar ideas about self-betterment and self-affirmation. It's about perservering and growing, seeking new understanding in the face of adversity. And yes, sometimes stumbling. As the Vong would tell us (in a disturbingly eager fashion no doubt), pain is part of the path to self-improvement. And of course the Typhon Pact may be a potential threat, but it's no Yuuzhan Vong.

One of the ideas hinted at often in later 24th century Trek, and explored frequently in literature and in fan discussion, is the 24th century Federation's complacency. "Kirk boldly went, blazing the unknown, while Picard sat in a comfortable flying hotel secure that the Federation was on top of everything". Losing the Peace even made it explicit that post-Destiny Trek is a bit more like Kirk-Trek than Picard-Trek. The Typhon Pact is our Strange New World, and yes, we're going to have a few mashed redshirts or insane computer massacres and McCoy shouting "my god man, show some empathy you green-blooded computer!" But it's worth it, isn't it?

Forgive me saying so, but I'm also not sure why the Typhon Pact books are being singled out for apparent negativity. While hoping this won't backfire by seeming to validate a "Trek lit is depressing" viewpoint (), Vanguard featured setbacks and losses nearly every book, and each discovery or piece of groundwork laid diplomatically, scientifically, etc, came at a price. The Lost Era had cold wars and black ops and any number of complications to the Federation's business, and the Deep Space Nine Relaunch featured a long string of problems and disasters for Kira, Dax, Taran'atar, etc. A Time To... had a string of problems for Picard especially; even Klingon Empire has the Klag Family Troubles. And whenever a character goes home to their planet, whether it's in the Worlds of DS9 books or SCE or wherever, it's always just in time for a crisis. Obviously, there has to be some sort of challenge or complication for the characters to work around or to have their development molded by or their personal qualities explored through. I don't see the Typhon Pact books as anything other than the next set of obstacles and problems for the characters to work through.

Of course, this is all subjective, so I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong if they find the Pact books too negative. I just don't agree, is all.

 

[timothy]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

well I have enhoyed the typhon pact so much it has made me back track to where I originally left off when I stopped reading trek lit and I still read star wars fiction as well .

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

They are similar, though, in that they create one overarching and easily identifiable foe to focus on.

I don't know about that, since they consist of six different nations that are hardly all on the same page as one another, and are not all antagonistic toward the Federation. These fiercely independent powers may have reluctantly come around to the consensus that there's benefit in cooperation, but they've only been at it for a couple of years, so it'll be a long, long time before they really constitute a unified front. The members of the Pact are competing with each other and with conflicting factions within their own respective nations at least as much as they're competing with the Federation.

Yes, that conflict is much more complicated in TrekLit and yes it is of a different tone and yes the individual series are all also continuing under their own banners (except apparently DS9), but I think the motivation is similar. Brand a large swath of the line under the same banner so it's more unified and easier to understand for consumers.

I don't think that was the original creative intent of Keith and Marco when they came up with it, but it does seem to be the philosophy underlying the marketing and labeling of the subsequent books (given that DRGIII's upcoming duology is coming out with the Typhon Pact logo even though it wasn't originally going to).

Which is why the Typhon Pact branding fails; the books are calling themselves an interconnected series, but not only are they not, per Christopher they aren't intended to be such either. So the branding and what the books are don't match up.

Rather, I think that Destiny changed the landscape so much that it's overshadowed the earlier precedents for what the TP books are doing. Most of the Trek Lit miniseries over the years have been loose umbrella themes unifying separate, standalone tales: Invasion!, Day of Honor, Captain's Table, Section 31, Double Helix, Gateways, and the like. Typhon Pact is in much the same vein as those. But in between we had Destiny, which was a much more unified crossover event; and even though it was the only one of its kind, it made such an impact that it's changed people's perceptions and expectations of what a Trek Lit crossover or miniseries is.

I'm sure that Marketing said "oh, Destiny sold well, make us more like that," which is why the Typhon Pact branding uses a similar aesthetic. But that's not what the books really are.

Well, that's hardly unprecedented. Plenty of movie trailers give misleading impressions about what's in the movies. But I'd think that actually reading the books or seeing the films should clear up any mistaken first impressions. What surprises me about the reactions to the TP books is the way some readers seem to fixate on what's on the covers and overlook a great deal of what's in between them.

 

[ATimson]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Most of the Trek Lit miniseries over the years have been loose umbrella themes unifying separate, standalone tales: Invasion!, Day of Honor, Captain's Table, Section 31, Double Helix, Gateways, and the like. Typhon Pact is in much the same vein as those.

And if TP was marketed like any of those earlier miniseries, that would've been great. It wasn't.

(Well, okay, maybe not if they were marketed like Double Helix, since only half the TP books so far have a TNG connection. But even the editor said that the DH branding was a mistake, in retrospect.)

What surprises me about the reactions to the TP books is the way some readers seem to fixate on what's on the covers and overlook a great deal of what's in between them.

Unfortunately, nowadays the covers are about all you have to sell the book; in a world of ebooks and online sales, you can't rely on someone flipping through the book to see what it's "really like". If the marketing materials don't give an accurate impression of the book, you're going to lose sales from people who don't realize what you're offering, and annoy people who thought they were buying one book and got another.

 

[Sci]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Most of the Trek Lit miniseries over the years have been loose umbrella themes unifying separate, standalone tales: Invasion!, Day of Honor, Captain's Table, Section 31, Double Helix, Gateways, and the like. Typhon Pact is in much the same vein as those.

And if TP was marketed like any of those earlier miniseries, that would've been great. It wasn't.

I don't really see how the marketing on Typhon Pact is any different than for Section 31, or Gateways, or Captain's Table. It was pretty obvious just from looking at the back cover descriptions that Typhon Pact is a set of loosely-connected stories, not a single narrative a la Destiny.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Those miniseries all had the series titles on the cover - "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine", etc. Typhon Pact just had "Star Trek: Typhon Pact".

 

[Sci]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Those miniseries all had the series titles on the cover - "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine", etc. Typhon Pact just had "Star Trek: Typhon Pact".

Ah. Still seems like a minor difference to me -- it just means there's one less obnoxious colon subtitle. The actual back cover synopses made it clear what Typhon Pact was.

(At one point, I remember seriously expecting to see a never-ending series of subtitles. Star Trek Colon Deep Space Nine Colon Mission Gamma Colon Book One Colon This Grey Spirit. Star Trek Colon The Next Generation Colon Section 31 Colon Rogue. Star Trek Colon Voyager Colon Gateways Colon What Lay Beyond Colon In the Queue.)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Unfortunately, nowadays the covers are about all you have to sell the book; in a world of ebooks and online sales, you can't rely on someone flipping through the book to see what it's "really like". If the marketing materials don't give an accurate impression of the book, you're going to lose sales from people who don't realize what you're offering, and annoy people who thought they were buying one book and got another.

A lot of people like finding things they don't expect, at least if those things are good.

Besides, it's not as if marketing as a profession has a history of being meticulously accurate.

More to the point, this thread isn't about what the books look like, it's about what they actually are. I'd think that people who've actually read them would know that they aren't some single serial narrative and that they aren't all the same, which is why the misperception underlying this thread is so puzzling.

 

[JD]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Unfortunately, nowadays the covers are about all you have to sell the book; in a world of ebooks and online sales, you can't rely on someone flipping through the book to see what it's "really like". If the marketing materials don't give an accurate impression of the book, you're going to lose sales from people who don't realize what you're offering, and annoy people who thought they were buying one book and got another.

Not true. Most online retailers have some kind of a "look inside", or read a sample option somewhere on it's page, and the Nook lets you download a free sample of between 5-200 pages depending on the book. I'm assuming the Kindle does too, but I've never deal with one so I don't know for sure.

 

[Mage]

Re: Has the Typhon Pact Books Became Yuuhzan Vong Invasion of Star Tre

Star Trek and Star Wars fans will always find something to complain about, and in TrekLit, the TP branding is it.

The thing is, hardly anything has changed!! It's not as if every book ends on a cliffhanger, and that you MUST read three other novels to understand (for example) Paths Of Disharmony. Is it more enjoyable to read the other novels? Hell yeah!! But necessary?? No.

Like I said, and I'll get flamed for this, but some people just need to complain, so they'll just find something.

Question to the topicstarter (and people who agree with him): Does this mean you are actually looking less forward to the new DRGIII duology, David Mack's trilogy, Una McCormack's new novel, all just because they happen to have the Typhon Pact branding? I mean, the stories are so diverse!! Just look at the three basic plotlines for Mack's new trilogy. If you had made the 'bad guys' (I hate that term) with three random old aliens, or new ones, no one would be complaining.