harsh realities of rewatching original Star Trek show

[urrutiap]

since im the only person that actually read the whole article, i might as well type the whole list of things that was mentioned in the damn article

10 Harsh Realities of Rewatching Star Trek: The Original Series (screenrant.com) that is the link to the website.



10. the "awful" costumes
9. the treatment of Spock going too far.
8. "Far too many" episodes having misogyny and sexism. One of the most difficult aspects of watching Star Trek: The Original Series today is the rampant and obvious sexism. This is not so much a critique of the show itself, as it tried to be progressive in its own way, but more an acknowledgment of the problematic views about women that were widespread at the time. From historian Marla McGivers' (Madelyn Rhue) instant infatuation with Khan (Ricardo Montalban) in "Space Seed" to the portrayal of Harry Mudd's (Roger C. Carmel) former wife in "I, Mudd" to pretty much everything in "Turnabout Intruder," the sexism in Star Trek crops up in all three seasons. While this clearly illustrates the show as a product of its time, it's still jarring to hear even the ever-logical Spock reduce women to inaccurate stereotypes.

7. the "bad" Klingon makeup. what did she expect? it was the 1960s back then

6. Uhura who rarely got to do anything
5. the dangerous aliens looking too silly
4. the acting being over the top
3. the hand to hand combat looking ridiculous
2. Kirk making too many mistakes as Captain
1. some episodes are truly terrible

 

[Richard S. Ta]

So you're sad because you like TOS and someone else said some bad things about it?

How old are you? WTF is this? What do you want us to say?

 

[1001001]

At least it’s in the right place this time.

I’ll probably regret it but I’ll let this stay open, for now, on a tight leash.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

@1001001

My bad. I wasn't aware of the others.

*backing out slowly...*

 

[Takeru]

since im the only person that actually read the whole article, i might as well type the whole list of things that was mentioned in the damn article ...

Why exactly don't you like the article? It points out some flaws the show definitely had, this shouldn't be controversial. The article acknowledges that this is mostly a result of the times the show was made in and that it was trying to be progressive in some ways but as the show is still watched today and new shows take place in its era it is perfectly valid to take a closer look and point out the things that didn't age well.
The alien costumes for female characters were indeed mostly awful, Theiss would have put pasties on characters if he would have gotten away with it, the costumes were more often than not very male gazey.
The Klingon make up; what she expected? Maybe more than painting white people brown and having them play space mongols. It's not a surprise the Klingons got a completely new look for TMP, the original look was offensive and not salvageable. They also had more budget and opportunities but none of the other aliens got a complete overhaul and Deltan's only alien characteristic was "no hair" so clearly they had no problem with aliens looking mostly human, the original klingon look was just that bad.

 

[Kor]

Meh. Screenrant.com is a virtual "rag."

Kor

 

[T'Bonz]

I'm not sure of your position on said article, but here's my opinion:

10. the "awful" costumes - Lack of $$$ Some were actually clever given budget constraints.

9. the treatment of Spock going too far. - At times. But Spock was clever and could defend himself pretty well.

8. "Far too many" episodes having misogyny and sexism. - The show was a product of the 1960s and reflected society's attitude at the time. Regrettably.

7. the "bad" Klingon makeup. - Again - Lack of $$$

6. Uhura who rarely got to do anything - Focus on the main star (which became two and then three stars)

5. the dangerous aliens looking too silly. - Lack of $$$

4. the acting being over the top. - Not always and it may have been the way things were played at the time.

3. the hand to hand combat looking ridiculous. - No opinion on this.

2. Kirk making too many mistakes as Captain - being human, not a superhero.

1. some episodes are truly terrible - Welcome to weekly TV.

It was a TV show, meant to draw in viewers, so they'd buy the crap that the advertisers sold, so that the writers and everyone would be paid, so that the businesses involved would prosper. If it was good enough, those making the show would be employed/paid, and those watching it would be entertained.

As this native Pittsburgher would say, "That's it, Fort Pitt!"

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Why exactly don't you like the article?

This was made clear elsewhere:

the harsh realities of the original Star Trek show

As you well know.

 

[urbandefault]

I was a kid in the 60s. There was a lot worse stuff than Star Trek to complain about, as I recall.

But that's just one old dude's take. YMMV. FWIW, LSMFT.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I can watch the original King Kong in one of two ways:

1) through a modern lens which would show laughably fake effects, annoying screaming from the leading lady, horrible dialog and some of the worst acting I've ever seen.

or

2) in context of 1933 where I would experience a breathtaking adventure; a terrifying and incredibly faced paced piece of truly original cinema with amazing music.

Every piece of TV and cinema reflects its era and ages. Some age better than others. If the writer thought classic Star Trek was tough to watch, I'd be interested so see how she would fare with some early classic Doctor Who....

 

[Takeru]

This was made clear elsewhere:

the harsh realities of the original Star Trek show

As you well know.

Yes, but he started this thread and should engage with the topic. The first post right now is just a recap of the article and not a proper start of a discussion.

My question was also an invitation to make a better argument than the sexist one and thought maybe he's interested in properly discussing it. Apparently he's not and it really is just sexism.

Every piece of TV and cinema reflects its era and ages. Some age better than others. If the writer thought classic Star Trek was tough to watch, I'd be interested so see how she would fare with some early classic Doctor Who....

I think the show reflecting its era was the point of the article, she says at several points that the show is progressive in some ways but problematic in others and even cites the era it was made in as a reason. To me it felt more like making people aware of certain things if they want to watch it because it is worth watching than telling people not to watch. The headline is kinda clickbaity but that's the internet these days.

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

 

[Nerys Myk]

since im the only person that actually read the whole article, i might as well type the whole list of things that was mentioned in the damn article

10 Harsh Realities of Rewatching Star Trek: The Original Series (screenrant.com) that is the link to the website.



10. the "awful" costumes
9. the treatment of Spock going too far.
8. "Far too many" episodes having misogyny and sexism. One of the most difficult aspects of watching Star Trek: The Original Series today is the rampant and obvious sexism. This is not so much a critique of the show itself, as it tried to be progressive in its own way, but more an acknowledgment of the problematic views about women that were widespread at the time. From historian Marla McGivers' (Madelyn Rhue) instant infatuation with Khan (Ricardo Montalban) in "Space Seed" to the portrayal of Harry Mudd's (Roger C. Carmel) former wife in "I, Mudd" to pretty much everything in "Turnabout Intruder," the sexism in Star Trek crops up in all three seasons. While this clearly illustrates the show as a product of its time, it's still jarring to hear even the ever-logical Spock reduce women to inaccurate stereotypes.

7. the "bad" Klingon makeup. what did she expect? it was the 1960s back then

6. Uhura who rarely got to do anything
5. the dangerous aliens looking too silly
4. the acting being over the top
3. the hand to hand combat looking ridiculous
2. Kirk making too many mistakes as Captain
1. some episodes are truly terrible

Well, I read the entire article and it make some valid point, Mostly points that have been many times over the last few decades. Sometimes by *GASP!* middle aged men who watched the show in their youths!!!!
10. The costumes are hit and miss. Some are quite beautiful. When Theiss was on his game he produced some stunning work. There are a few that look like carpet remnants though
9. Yeah, Spock got some stick from McCoy and Kirk, But he could dish it out too in that cool biting Vulcan style. Would that sort of banter fly today? Probably not.
8. There is no denying this. The women were very much a product of the attitudes of the 1960s. Funny that Trek fell so far after trying to introduce Number One in the pilot, Though Number One was a bit of a 60s female stereotype herself,
7. The Klingon Make up. Another one were the writer is correct, Even in 60s people new that “Yellow Peril” look was a bad idea, Though it persisted well into the 70s. Still funny that they forgot the makeup in The Trouble With Tribbles, but it comes back with a vengeance in Day of the Dove. And lets face it, Klingons are still using the TOS makeup, they just added the ridges.
6. Uhura. Again the writer is correct, but Uhura, Sulu and Chekov were not created to be developed and expanded on. They weren’t the same type of secondary character we would later see in TNG or DS9. Scotty is about the only one who fits that category and just barely. Their parts for the most part could have been played by any one off actor, (and at times were).
5. Aliens. There are pretty good “dangerous alien”. The Mugato and the Horta are good designs. Even the neural parasites, used by the author to illustrate this point aren’t horrible, Though my sisters and I like to call them “flying hotscakes*” back in the ‘70s. So I disagree with the author. I’ll take the Salt Vampires costume over Armus any day,
4. Acting. It was on par with the acting in Star Trek’s contemporaries. People tend to think of the broad over the top Shatner impersonations rather that he’s actual work. He could be quite effective.
3. Hand to Hand Combat. I’m no expert but I thought it was okay. There were probably time restrictions in how much blocking and choreography they could do. I wonder in Standards and Practices had a hand in it as well.
2. Kirk makes mistakse. Well, yeah. Where’s the drama if Kirk is always right and makes correct choice in act one. She seems to forget Kirk was the lead in an action adventure show. So, yeah he leads away teams landing parties. He gets in fights. I also think she underestimates Kirk's skill in diplomacy and intelligence. Also Kirk cares about his crew. The end of episode "laugh" doesn't change that.
1. Terrible Episodes. Yes some are terrible. But that's true of most, if not all TV show, Even some ardent TOS fans speak of the Turd Season. I think she and many others don't really get what's happening in "Plato's Stepchildren". Our heroes are being humiliated by the Platonians, Forced to act as puppets to the whims of Parmen and his cronies.

*Green Acres

 

[M'Sharak]

There are a few that look like carpet remnants though

Or placemats.

 

[PCz911]

I concur that it must be viewed in the historic context.

For instance, I watched an episode of the original Hawaii 5-0. Wow, talk about cheap production. They used bounce boards instead of key lights to save money. And the dialogue/ acting was of the era.

So everything is relative. And viewing it now, with hi def, shows things that were never visible in the day.

 

[Warped9]

I concur that it must be viewed in the historic context.

For instance, I watched an episode of the original Hawaii 5-0. Wow, talk about cheap production. They used bounce boards instead of key lights to save money. And the dialogue/ acting was of the era.

So everything is relative. And viewing it now, with hi def, shows things that were never visible in the day.

And thats the downside of watching old shows on BluRay—you see all the stuff you looked right past on a CRT set.

Few old productions can really hold up from today’s perspective, and just in terms of vfx.

On the flip side I find a lot of contemporary productions, film and television, of the past 10-20 years essentially impossible to watch. Sound mixing is often terrible—I want to hear whats being said. And I find much of the writing dull, even juvenile, and characters unbelievable. And, yes, I lump contemporary Trek into that group.

The most recent things I’ve enjoyed watching are The Crown and The Gilded Age. The Expanse was the last science fiction I liked. I’m curious to see the forthcoming Babylon 5 animated production.

Don’t get me started on comedy. There isn’t any worth a damn.

 

[Timewalker]

4. the acting being over the top. - Not always and it may have been the way things were played at the time.

If referring to Shatner, people should remember that he was a theatre actor before he started doing TV and movies. In the theatre you have to be more expansive in gestures and movements, a bit louder in volume, due to having to reach the entire audience, no matter where they're sitting in the auditorium. Since this was before the modern technology available in theatre productions, it was even more important.

Subtle whispers just won't do, as one of the actors found out in the production of "The Sound of Music" I worked on in 1982. He tried for subtle whispers when trying to explain the facts of their current pre-WWII world to Captain Von Trapp, and the director said (paraphrased), "I know what you're trying to do, Iori (the actor's first name), but we can't hear you. You'll have to speak up."

So the line was delivered at a louder volume that the mikes could pick up.

That was one director's way of handling it. Another director I worked with would just bellow at the actors to "PROJECT!" (project their voices and actions to the audience).

Shatner's theatre training, particularly in Shakespeare, would have taught him to use bigger gestures, louder voices, and I suspect that during Star Trek, some of that was as ingrained as breathing.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Shatner's theatre training, particularly in Shakespeare, would have taught him to use bigger gestures, louder voices, and I suspect that during Star Trek, some of that was as ingrained as breathing.

And that gave us the Kirk persona. He was nothing like the workaday Navy captain whose understatement and flat delivery are fine in real life. Kirk was entertaining, he held the screen. His larger than life style wasn't a bug, it was a feature.

You can't be like that in the real workplace without irritating people, but in a one-hour drama, it works.

 

[suarezguy]

8. "Far too many" episodes having misogyny and sexism. One of the most difficult aspects of watching Star Trek: The Original Series today is the rampant and obvious sexism. This is not so much a critique of the show itself, as it tried to be progressive in its own way, but more an acknowledgment of the problematic views about women that were widespread at the time. From historian Marla McGivers' (Madelyn Rhue) instant infatuation with Khan (Ricardo Montalban) in "Space Seed" to the portrayal of Harry Mudd's (Roger C. Carmel) former wife in "I, Mudd" to pretty much everything in "Turnabout Intruder," the sexism in Star Trek crops up in all three seasons.

I don't find McGivers and her infatuation and relationship with Khan (especially as she eventually does regret, reform, save the day and still wants to be with and is admired by Khan) to be outright sexist let alone misogynist. There are some sexist elements but that occurring even a few times *every season* (every season having 24 or more episodes) eta: isn't really a lot.

Agreed a few of the supposedly dangerous aliens looked a bit silly but not a lot of them.

Yes "Spock's Brain" was terrible, so was "And the Children Shall Lead", don't see what was embarrassing about "Plato's Stepchildren" (there was some weird, kind of out of place, kind of not out of place humor zOMG) or "The Way to Eden" or that the portrayals in "The Paradise Syndrome" were racist.

Of course there was some OTT Shatner acting, whether you like it or not I don't think it was a really big or often part of the show.

 

[Dee1891]

I would have to write an article to explain my issues with "The Original Series".