Harry Kim

[Willim Davies]

Don't you find it's very unfair to Harry that he never gets a propper promotion the whole 10 years he served on board voyager?
even Paris got a promotion!
and in Endgame
notice how old Harry is when he finally makes it to the captains chair!
do you think it is because he always tried too hard to get noticed?

 

[Guy Gardener]

That was Kim trying?

 

[KDoug]

Sure, it's unfair. But, I don't think it has anything to do with trying too hard to get noticed. I didn't get the impression that he was written or portrayed that way. I think it has more to do with the showrunners being sloppy.

 

[Markira]

Sure, it's unfair. But, I don't think it has anything to do with trying too hard to get noticed. I didn't get the impression that he was written or portrayed that way. I think it has more to do with the showrunners being sloppy.

I would agree, but I recently watched the episode where Paris gets re-promoted to lieutenant after being an ensign (for far too long, imo), and Kim actually makes a comment along the lines of "where's my new pip?" It was like the writers thought it was a joke to keep on not promoting Harry. I didn't really care for that.

But I think his character was poorly written about 90% of the time. The rest of the time they're just using him as the never-ending punchline to a joke.

 

[RyuRoots]

That was Kim trying?

A good point.

"Poor, dumb Harry" is one of sfdebris' most appropriate recurring gags. When I watched Endgame, I considered Captain Kim to be one of those things placed to make absolutely sure the viewer is aware that this future isn't going to happen.

Harry "I'm locked out!" Kim himself became a running gag, and one that I found mildly amusing, so being stuck as an ensign doesn't especially bother me. It was 7 years, not 10, by the way. Same as TNG and DS9.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Well, it was only 7 years without a promotion on Voyager, not 10, and Harry became a Captain within 6 years of his return to the Alpha Quadrant in "Endgame". Which meant 29 years after he first shipped out on Voyager as an Ensign, he was shipping out as Captain.

He only "looked" old because 23 years in the DQ with Janeway is very wearing on the body.

No one except Tuvok actually received a "promotion". Tom was demoted and reinstated to his prior rank.

 

[DS9]

Yeah it was unfair to him but like a lot of people say, blame it on the writing.

 

[od0_ital]

even Paris got a promotion!

He actually got two promotions. He started out onboard as a rankless observer, and by the end of the series premiere, he was a lieutenant. And when he was demoted to ensign, he still got bumped back up to lieutenant later.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When the Kazon stole the ship, surely that means that no ones ranks were in any way still associated with.... Did the Kazon rename "Voyager"?

So when Tom took the ship back off the Kazon, by being awesome, surely it was his ship until he CHOSE to give it back to Kathryn "Butterfingers" Janeway.

Which is another promotion and demotion for Turkey Platter.

 

[od0_ital]

^

Unless Tom had access to the command codes & was able to change 'em, it was still Janeway's ship, he was just takin' it back to her.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I've had stuff stolen off me.

A couple bicycles, a lawn mower.

You know "stuff".

Years after the fact, do I consider those things still mine?

Months after I'd been kicked out for throwing food and booze, I was visiting my exgirlfriend and saw a hair brush I had stolen off my mother when I'd left home, which I felt no choice but to "liberate".

Is it I who is the thief or she?

I doubt Voyager could have gone to warp or landed without "some" of the command codes but I remember something about the Kazon being locked out for a while during the change over...

Would it have been Kullah's ship if he had executed the crew instead of marooning them?

Dude gets punished for being a nice guy.

Methinks that Kullah, given a little longer to catch his breath, would have renamed Voyager "The Seska".

 

[od0_ital]

^

Cullah had the ship for days, not weeks, months or years. It was still Janeway's, since the dude didn't even have time to redecorate the ready room...or even christen the couch!!!

 

[BlobVanDam]

Harry Kim didn't deserve a promotion. And neither did Garrett Wang.

 

[Guy Gardener]

^

Cullah had the ship for days, not weeks, months or years. It was still Janeway's, since the dude didn't even have time to redecorate the ready room...or even christen the couch!!!

There was soooooooooooo enough time to "christen the couch" and most every other secreted surface on the ship.

If what had been until recently Janeways "bedsprings" could talk.

"i don't understand what is happening, what are they doing?! OH MY GOODNESS! The noise! the squelching! The... "

You understand the concept of a pissing contest or what blokes do when they take out their rulers?

Cullah (with a "C" you say.) had to put a baby inside his missus better than Chakotay ASAP to prove to the girl who the better man is.

"Veni, Vidi, Vici"

 

[od0_ital]

Cullah (with a "C" you say.)...

Not just me, StarTrek.com says so, too.

http://www.startrek.com/database_article/culluh

 

[exodus]

Well, it was only 7 years without a promotion on Voyager, not 10, and Harry became a Captain within 6 years of his return to the Alpha Quadrant in "Endgame". Which meant 29 years after he first shipped out on Voyager as an Ensign, he was shipping out as Captain.

He only "looked" old because 23 years in the DQ with Janeway is very wearing on the body.

No one except Tuvok actually received a "promotion". Tom was demoted and reinstated to his prior rank.

Exactly.
Plus, Tom's rank was only field commission.
I think offically, Harry still out ranked Tom due to that technicality.

Besides, if Harry got a promotion and everyone was a LT., then who'd be left to do the grunt work? You still need a lower ranking officer to delegate all the stuff you don't wanna do too. Why does everyone think Harry was the one sent to work with Borg Seven first? Janeway wasn't going to send her Chief Engineer to get assimilated, she sent Harry. Someone equal in skill but no loss if killed. It's why he gets sent on away missions and Be'lanna stays onboard.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They're called "crewmen".

There's a wealth of unenlisted dog faces who keep the ship running.

But Voyagers writing room doesn't like to think about anyone with dirty fingernails.

I'm told in the current US military, the ratio of officers to enlisted personnel is 1:10.

It takes four years to train an Ensign and 12 weeks (Boot camp? You remember Stripes.) to train an able crewman.

Considering how huge the Federation is, goodness knows what their ratio is.

1:10,000?

 

[od0_ital]

...
Plus, Tom's rank was only field commission.
I think offically, Harry still out ranked Tom due to that technicality.

I call bullshit on that.

On DS9, Nog didn't even graduate from the Academy but got his commission to ensign anyway, due to his war experiences aboard the Defiant.

When he wound up aboard the Valiant with Jake, he rightfully identified the captain & crew as officers senior to his position as an ensign. They too were cadets, but their ranks were field commissions. The captain was promoted by the previous, dyin' captain, and then he promoted everybody else.

Rank is rank - Tom, a lieutenant, outranked Harry, an ensign.

The only time Voyager addressed the technicalities of rank was when Tom & B'Elanna, both lieutenants, tried to pull rank on each other, and Tom said that as a bridge officer, he was higher up than her, even though she was a department head.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Having recently rewatched "Nightingale", I know that Harry Kim remained an ensign for 7 years for a very good reason.

He's hopeless!

 

[sonak]

The writers were very much aware of the issue, as mentioned with their hanging a lampshade on it with the "where's my extra pip" thing.


It just became a running joke not to promote him because he was supposed to be Voyager's butt monkey.