Hard Time
- Thread starter Tribble Threat
- Start date
I'll start by saying I'm not 100% clear on this forums rules about going off tangent, so if someone says I'm breaking a rule, I'll delete this post.
There are three vaccines that are about to be released to the world. The problems are that they all require two shots, and two of them need to be shipped at exceptionally low temperatures. The USA's scheduled to have the entire country vaccinated by the end of June, which is disheartening but far from permanent. I don't know any other country's schedule.
There are three vaccines that are about to be released to the world. The problems are that they all require two shots, and two of them need to be shipped at exceptionally low temperatures. The USA's scheduled to have the entire country vaccinated by the end of June, which is disheartening but far from permanent. I don't know any other country's schedule.
Yes, the dry ice temperature shipping will add to the cost and difficulty, but should be solveable in the rich countries. The poor countries I guess will have to get along with the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine that's less effective but a lot less fussy about its storage.
I will fearlessly predict that isolation and zoom schooling will be phased out promptly as the virus disappears. Wearing of masks will become less common, but some people will continue wearing them in public.
Working at home may become more common long term. Companies traditionally feared people would be goofing off all day, but it's been reported that productivity has actually increased. (Maybe people who were determined to goof off could find ways to goof off while at work just as well?) And lots of people prefer it over commuting, and long term they may relocate to cheaper real estate if they hardly ever have to come to work. The companies also win by needing smaller headquarters - less real estate, smaller utlity bills, etc.
I will fearlessly predict that isolation and zoom schooling will be phased out promptly as the virus disappears. Wearing of masks will become less common, but some people will continue wearing them in public.
Working at home may become more common long term. Companies traditionally feared people would be goofing off all day, but it's been reported that productivity has actually increased. (Maybe people who were determined to goof off could find ways to goof off while at work just as well?) And lots of people prefer it over commuting, and long term they may relocate to cheaper real estate if they hardly ever have to come to work. The companies also win by needing smaller headquarters - less real estate, smaller utlity bills, etc.
Political pressure to reform their "prison" system?
The virtual prison they put him in would regularly starve him for several days. I'd say it qualifies as torture.
Man, I wish Worf and Shaxs could have met...
There could always be a flashback...
The latter isn't only if the income is actually enough to comfortably live on...
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I'd say you could argue that particular point in either direction. His body itself was never starved, he never even skipped a single meal.
Also, no prison sentence today actually avoids torture conceptually: the whole point is to make the criminal suffer hardships he or she would not otherwise endure. There's only a minimal element of trying to keep the criminal off the streets (the lengths of the sentences not really catering for that effect), and even less of an element of actually trying to wean him or her from crime (no working technique exists, unlike apparently in Trek) - except through the deterrent of being tortured for it.
Beyond that, it's a matter of truly fleeting definitions. How much hardship is Goldilocks? Zero is bad. In some systems, constant physical pain is bad, but constant mental anguish is good. In others... Well, there's a whole range there.
What would the Feds think about that? They still believe in prisons, but in TOS it's for the incurably insane only. In DS9, it's for those guilty of ancient crimes, or for foreigners, and we don't quite learn if it's only for them. We know of one sentence in terms of visual evidence, and Tom Paris was being tortured with freedom deprivation and possibly forced to do physical labor, but was that for deterrence? Or were both of those things mere unfortunate side effects of the doctors having to restrain him while the cure for criminality was being applied?
The system of "Hard Time" is pure deterrence. The system of "Dagger of the Mind" seems to be almost pure cure, with minimal freedom deprivation for practical reasons. Outside that episode, the only type of imprisonment we hear of is for life - for Burnham's mutiny or Garth's genocidal leanings or for whatever Marta the Orion wannabe ever did. No curative aspect there, even though Elba II has the helpful neural neutralizer chair and all. But probably fairly little deterrence value, if out of the trillions in the UFP, less than a dozen get the sentence!
Timo Saloniemi
Beyond that, it's a matter of truly fleeting definitions. How much hardship is Goldilocks? Zero is bad. In some systems, constant physical pain is bad, but constant mental anguish is good. In others... Well, there's a whole range there.
What would the Feds think about that? They still believe in prisons, but in TOS it's for the incurably insane only. In DS9, it's for those guilty of ancient crimes, or for foreigners, and we don't quite learn if it's only for them. We know of one sentence in terms of visual evidence, and Tom Paris was being tortured with freedom deprivation and possibly forced to do physical labor, but was that for deterrence? Or were both of those things mere unfortunate side effects of the doctors having to restrain him while the cure for criminality was being applied?
The system of "Hard Time" is pure deterrence. The system of "Dagger of the Mind" seems to be almost pure cure, with minimal freedom deprivation for practical reasons. Outside that episode, the only type of imprisonment we hear of is for life - for Burnham's mutiny or Garth's genocidal leanings or for whatever Marta the Orion wannabe ever did. No curative aspect there, even though Elba II has the helpful neural neutralizer chair and all. But probably fairly little deterrence value, if out of the trillions in the UFP, less than a dozen get the sentence!
Timo Saloniemi
You certainly could argue that, but the argument fails to me. It's the feeling that one is starving that is torture. The Talosians might argue that it wasn't actually torture for Captain Pike to feel like he was burning up in a fire, because his body wasn't actually burning, but I don't think Pike would agree. The pain, the smell of his flesh, were real to him at the time.
Absolutely, if your mind believes a sensation it could be as real as the act actually happening. But further complicating it with Miles is that it all took place within a few hours, so in some ways it's more like a ridiculously vivid dream. Would thinking you are starving in a dream be considered torturous?
A typical dream is perceived as lasting a few minutes, maybe half an hour. Miles's dream was perceived as lasting 20 years. I think that makes a difference.
I don't know about you, but I've had plenty of dreams that seemed to go for an eternity while I was actually in them.
But my point is the perception versus the reality. His body was never in danger. Rather than starvation, what about a vivid dream where you get cut or stabbed over and over? No matter how real it seems, when you awake was there any torture? I'm not saying there definitely wasn't, I'm saying an argument could be made either way.
But my point is the perception versus the reality. His body was never in danger. Rather than starvation, what about a vivid dream where you get cut or stabbed over and over? No matter how real it seems, when you awake was there any torture? I'm not saying there definitely wasn't, I'm saying an argument could be made either way.
Yes, it is torture.
Just remember it took Mancow six seconds to freak out about waterboarding, and he was awake and lucid.
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