Harcourt Fenton Mudd

[GeekUSACarl]

Ahah..being with Stella is worse than any prison.
Ohhhhkayyyy

exactly how long do you think he'd stay in any prison? He abused a space whale, snuck onto a ship and pointed a phaser at the crew, yes that's pretty damn serious but exactly how long do you think he'd be in jail for it? Literally, zero damage done.

Also we don't know the nature of her or her father,

He was running from him and her, clearly frightened of them while running AT starfleet, significantly less frightened.

 

[ItIsGreen]

Edge of Tomorrow illustrated this concept very well, but i'd imagine after enough tries i'd have the process memorized.

I haven't seen Edge of Tomorrow, what process are you referring to?

Ahah..being with Stella is worse than any prison.
Ohhhhkayyyy

Well, clearly I was being tongue in cheek but I thought it was a nice homage to Kirk punishing him by leaving him with 500 android Stellas after trying to maroon the crew on Planet Mudd (and presumably steal the Enterprise).

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I haven't seen Edge of Tomorrow, what process are you referring to?

The whole "if you do something a bajillion times over and over you will eventually have the process so memorized you can do almost anything" within the context of combat and infiltration.

Almost a great film, really flimsy ending, really flimsy concept for the third act.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ahah..being with Stella is worse than any prison.
Ohhhhkayyyy

That's how it worked in TOS.

 

[SharkD]

Mudd should be in prison. This is the single biggest thing that has bothered me about the show so far. Also, the actor irritates me. Don't like him at all.

 

[cooleddie74]

That's how it worked in TOS.

His fate ended up being a very lousy thing. Thing. THINGGGGGGGGG.

 

[cooleddie74]

Mudd should be in prison. This is the single biggest thing that has bothered me about the show so far. Also, the actor irritates me. Don't like him at all.

I do agree about the prison thing, however...how many times did Kirk or one of the other captains just let someone walk away after committing acts of theft, sabotage or even plunder? Archer was within his right to arrest the four Ferengi pirates who robbed the NX-01 and threatened to kidnap T'Pol but he decided to let them go with the caveat that they never bothered him nor another Earth ship again.

Now we know the real reason is because humans aren't supposed to know about the Ferengi for another two centuries and having four unidentified aliens obsessed with profit in the brig opens up an enormous can of continuity worms, but in-universe Archer did what Lorca would do more than 100 years later. Turn a blind eye so long as they stayed out of his hair.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

also i dunno how far away they were from a starbase or transport of some sort, would you want mudd on your top secret ship in a brig during war time?

 

[SharkD]

A convict is already a member of the crew.

Also, what Mudd did is many times more brutal than the cowardly Ferengi!

 

[cooleddie74]

also i dunno how far away they were from a starbase or transport of some sort, would you want mudd on your top secret ship in a brig during war time?

Even if you didn't include his track record on TOS which, naturally, has yet to happen he's a risk to just let wander around a starship without armed security watching his every move. He spent time in a Klingon prison cell, was inside the Klingon sphere of influence for months and is a self-professed con artist and rogue who's willing to bend or even break the law just to gain the upper hand in a confrontation with an adversary. He shouldn't even be allowed on a garbage scow much less the most advanced starships in the Federation.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also, what Mudd did is many times more brutal than the cowardly Ferengi!

Kirk let a dictator and attempted murderer have his own planet. He also gave an actual murder his own planet.And none of those people got do overs that erased their crimes.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Ahah..being with Stella is worse than any prison.
Ohhhhkayyyy

That's how it worked in TOS.

His fate ended up being a very lousy thing. Thing. THINGGGGGGGGG.

I posted this in another thread, but it's worth posting here as well...

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[Shawnster]

Currently it is a crime to intend to sell a controlled substance, such as cocaine. Even if the baggie is full of nothing but talcum powder, they can still be prosecuted for intending to sell a controlled substance.

It all boils down to what the individual intended to do. Intent.

Mudd intended to steal a Federation starship and sell it to the Klingons. Mudd had dealings with the Klingons, a civilization currently at war with the Federation. If a US citizen has dealings with ISIS or, during a time of war, agents of an enemy nation, they are committing a crime. If Mudd was a Federation citizen, this is another crime on the list.

Mudd hacked a Federation starship's computer. The fact he was unsuccessful is irrelevant. If I attempted to hack the computer of a US heavy cruiser, I could be prosecuted for a crime.

As noted, Mudd did hold the bridge crew at gunpoint.

Illegal entry onto a Federation starship. Criminal trespass.

Mudd was in possession of access codes and computer overrides for Discovery. I'm sure even being in possession of obsolete codes is a crime.

Making threats against life and property, threatening harm or criminal activity toward a government facility is a felony. Calling in a bomb threat to a school or threatening to shoot up a school is a crime even if you do not actually intend to carry out the threat.

All of this is what Mudd was guilty of in the final time loop. The one not reset.

 

[SharkD]

Anyway, if all these reset realities didn't exist, then Mudd would have no memory of them either, just like the crew. Poor argument.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Anyway, if all these reset realities didn't exist, then Mudd would have no memory of them either, just like the crew. Poor argument.

It's established in the episode that Mudd retains the memories gained in each loop.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Working for the enemy. I said this from "Choose Your Pain", that one reason Lorca should not have left him there was for a full debriefing by starfleet command. The attempt to steal a Starfleet vessel to sell to the enemy would also still be valid reason to be tried - and it could have amounted to treason if he was officially classified as a Federation citizen.

Edit: just thinking about it, it really makes Burnham's sentencing even harder to swallow.

DING DING DING

Yep to all that.

 

[Zonker]

I guess logically the ending makes sense, but emotionally it just doesn’t work for me. Stamets knew for a fact that Mudd had murdered them all multiple times, and the other officers had very good reason to believe he did. Not to mention he took the crew hostage and attempted to sell the ship to the Klingons even in the timeline that does count. I feel like even if they couldn’t prove anything, they’d be much more vengeful than just setting him up with an annoying wife.

 

[Ithekro]

The spores said, "naw braw. Just hook him up with his woman, man. It will all work out for the stream, man. The time stream is just too far out, man."

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved the new Mudd and enjoyed the episode, but it was seriously hampered by their need to tie in to TOS. Multiple murders and he gets off with a verbal warning? And he still knows the secrets of Discovery and Staments? Yeah, right.

Let it be a reboot so they can actually have plausible endings that fit their reimagined characters or don't turn a 50 year old comedy relief character into a mass murderer.

 

[Timo]

I don't see what's wrong (that is, incorrect, ethics aside) with assuming that Mudd murdered people only when knowing it wouldn't matter. It would be solely up to Mudd to decide whether to make a timeline stay or be erased. He erased all those where he killed Lorca. He eventually erased even the one where he won but killed Tyler. So Mudd's character hinges on that "eventually": would he have reset if not for Burnham's clever suicide?

Knowing how to hack into the Discovery might count in his advantage: perhaps he was correct in stating the ship was embarrassingly poorly defended? For all we know, those faults were now corrected, solely thanks to him.

Ultimately, though, it's up to Lorca to decide whether Mudd will fly or fry. Kirk, too, had that power: he let murderers go, and at least once condemned Mudd to life imprisonment (that is, solitary confinement until death) outside the UFP judicial system (which, let's again remember, does not believe in punishment of any sort from TOS onwards). Lorca let Mudd walk, and Kirk let Khan walk. This may come to bite them back later, or then not. Either way, it's par for the course for how justice and starship captains work in 23rd century Trek.

Timo Saloniemi