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Happiness

iguana_tonante said:
No, because that would never bring you happiness. The more you struggle to seize happiness, the more it will escape you (add some trite metaphors about sand in your hand if so inclined). Stop trying to be happy and be happy.


Mr Radioactive said:
So regardless of whether happiness comes to the person after some event in the future or whether it is in "the voyage" now, you seem to be implying that being happy does represent some kind of purpose in life.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Happiness is not a purpose. It's a state of mind. A purpose implies a goal, a strategy, a path, a timeline. Happiness is the opposite of that.
Click to expand...

I meant happiness as your state of a complete mind. If happiness is a state of mind then that state of mind has to be achieved. So achieving that state of mind is a purpose.
 
Mr Radioactive said:
iguana_tonante said:
No, because that would never bring you happiness. The more you struggle to seize happiness, the more it will escape you (add some trite metaphors about sand in your hand if so inclined). Stop trying to be happy and be happy.


Mr Radioactive said:
So regardless of whether happiness comes to the person after some event in the future or whether it is in "the voyage" now, you seem to be implying that being happy does represent some kind of purpose in life.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Happiness is not a purpose. It's a state of mind. A purpose implies a goal, a strategy, a path, a timeline. Happiness is the opposite of that.
Click to expand...

I meant happiness as your state of a complete mind. If happiness is a state of mind then that state of mind has to be achieved. So achieving that state of mind is a purpose.
Click to expand...

What he is saying is the more you try and make happiness the ultimate goal the further away it gets. To use a geeky quote "The more you tighten your grip Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" The quest for happiness is like a drug for a lot of people. The "quest" for what you feel you need to be happy can hold you back from actually being happy.
 
Sparky said:
Mr Radioactive said:
iguana_tonante said:
No, because that would never bring you happiness. The more you struggle to seize happiness, the more it will escape you (add some trite metaphors about sand in your hand if so inclined). Stop trying to be happy and be happy.


I disagree. Happiness is not a purpose. It's a state of mind. A purpose implies a goal, a strategy, a path, a timeline. Happiness is the opposite of that.
Click to expand...

I meant happiness as your state of a complete mind. If happiness is a state of mind then that state of mind has to be achieved. So achieving that state of mind is a purpose.
Click to expand...

What he is saying is the more you try and make happiness the ultimate goal the further away it gets. To use a geeky quote "The more you tighten your grip Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" The quest for happiness is like a drug for a lot of people. The "quest" for what you feel you need to be happy can hold you back from actually being happy.
Click to expand...

Translation:

'Take shit'.

Well, only a little.
 
iguana_tonante said:
However, if we want to discuss accurately, we must be very careful, because we are talking about two different types of "happiness", and it's incorrect to mix them up.

There is happy-ness, the emotion of being happy, fleeting and elusive. Beautiful, but addictive: you can only savour a drop of it at any time, and it will be gone before you know it. And then there is Happiness, the state of a complete mind. You can also call it peace, or whatever. Using the usual trite metaphors, happy-ness is a dropper: you can't have more than one drop at a time; Happiness is the ocean: without beginning and without end, because it is simply there.

So, going back to your question: happy-ness can be a purpose, but it's a shallow one. You will be happy for a moment, but then it's gone. On the other hand, Happiness can never be a purpose, because by definition you can't find it: in a sense, you have to be found by it.
Click to expand...


Happy-ness might exist for a short while, or even a moment like you say, but that doesn't mean that it disappears. The happy-ness experience will leave you with a good memory. The value of this is that even years later you can still recall the event, and effectively relive it in your mind.

I have aquired some great memories, and I find that whenever I might be experiencing some difficulty I can just remember the things that I did, and I immediately feel much better. This is more than just a vague consolation.

Say, for example, you have a relationship with a supermodel. Even if you really do have endless ambition, and infinite curiosity, if we're being honest, having a relationship with a supermodel would pretty much top anything. How could you ever in good conscience allow yourself to be depressed by the dreariness of everyday life again? No matter how hard up you might be in the future, it is irrelevant because you once went out a supermodel.

Happy-ness gives you a memory of a peak experience that serves to define your life. You see yourself as the person who achieved this or that. Your achievements can never be taken away from you either. So, a person should actively strive to experience those happy-ness moments. This is not a shallow pursuit at all, it is the exact opposite of shallowness. Nor is it fleeting - because it remains in your memory and becomes part of what you are.



Sparky said:
What he is saying is the more you try and make happiness the ultimate goal the further away it gets. To use a geeky quote "The more you tighten your grip Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" The quest for happiness is like a drug for a lot of people. The "quest" for what you feel you need to be happy can hold you back from actually being happy.
Click to expand...

So by this logic if I felt that I had a vocation to be a doctor - which is probably one of the most worthwhile roles a person can have - and I worked hard and I really did become a doctor, then inevitably I wouldn't be happy? I believed that saving people's lives was what I wanted to do with my life. But, for whatever reason, saving lives didn't make me happy.
You say that the quest to be happy actually holds you back from being happy, so how can you actually be happy? I would have thought that happiness wouldn't exist then. Or does it really magically find you? Wouldn't you, at least, have to create the conditions for it to find you though?
 
Mr Radioactive said:
Happy-ness gives you a memory of a peak experience that serves to define your life. You see yourself as the person who achieved this or that. Your achievements can never be taken away from you either. So, a person should actively strive to experience those happy-ness moments. This is not a shallow pursuit at all, it is the exact opposite of shallowness. Nor is it fleeting - because it remains in your memory and becomes part of what you are.
Click to expand...

You assume that reliving that moment will bring the same amount of happiness, and that this emotion will be enough to overcome whatever obstacles are currently in the person's life. That's simply not true. If it works for you, that's fine. But it's not going to be the same for everyone. Someone might look upon past achievements and feel even worse about their current state of events because of the huge discrepancy.

Also it is not merely peak experiences, achievements, or moments that define us. It's everything in between as well.

Mr Radioactive said:
So by this logic if I felt that I had a vocation to be a doctor - which is probably one of the most worthwhile roles a person can have - and I worked hard and I really did become a doctor, then inevitably I wouldn't be happy? I believed that saving people's lives was what I wanted to do with my life. But, for whatever reason, saving lives didn't make me happy.
You say that the quest to be happy actually holds you back from being happy, so how can you actually be happy? I would have thought that happiness wouldn't exist then. Or does it really magically find you? Wouldn't you, at least, have to create the conditions for it to find you though?
Click to expand...

I think if you place all your happiness on a single thing like that, you're bound to end up disappointed. Sure, being a doctor may fulfill some important role in your life and bring you some happiness. But will it make you totally and completely happy? Probably not. We have a variety of needs that generally have to be filled by different experiences and people in our lives.

Mind, I have no clue what I'm talking about. I think happiness involves creating the best possible framework you can, making the most of what you have, and striving for more if necessary.
 
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