Hand phasers: the evolution of the "beam" and it's effects.

[Cyke101]

2) If the target is vaporized by raising it's temperature dramatically, anything around the target would be par broiled.

Not the way it works.

If it actually removes the atomic bonds holding them together, anything around the target will be bathed in radiation.

Ummm... no to that as well. Phasers disintegrate matter in the same way a tranporter beam does- selectively. Where the beam stops is what gets saturated, & only molocules of similar density in contact to the saturated object can absorb the "radiation," as you so quaintly put it.

I think the point of Peter's questions are about how real world physics would really come into play if we had Treknology. Akin to the old question of why do we hear sound f/x and see fireball explosions as well as FTL torpdoes in normal space.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I've seen nothing to indicate it works like a transporter. Because people were speculating it could feel like being boiled alive suggest some kind of heat-based vaporization.

 

[Chrisisall]

I've seen nothing to indicate it works like a transporter.

Disassemble & dematerialize both begin with a "D."

Because people were speculating it could feel like being boiled alive suggest some kind of heat-based vaporization.

Speculation is the key word. Ever see someone on TOS scream as they were being vapourized? And DO NOT point out that Tyrell screamed in STII- that was from the "pets."

 

[Cyke101]

I've seen nothing to indicate it works like a transporter.

Disassemble & dematerialize both begin with a "D."

Because people were speculating it could feel like being boiled alive suggest some kind of heat-based vaporization.

Speculation is the key word. Ever see someone on TOS scream as they were being vapourized? And DO NOT point out that Tyrell screamed in STII- that was from the "pets."

But the pets were vaporized, too!

 

[Chrisisall]

But the pets were vaporized, too!

LOL, my point is that the phaser beam immobilizes molocules as it breaks the atomic bonds- actually, quite a painless way to go, if you have to. The transporter does the same thing, only it preceeds to collect the matter as well.

 

[Myasishchev]

I've seen nothing to indicate it works like a transporter.

Disassemble & dematerialize both begin with a "D."

Because people were speculating it could feel like being boiled alive suggest some kind of heat-based vaporization.

Speculation is the key word. Ever see someone on TOS scream as they were being vapourized? And DO NOT point out that Tyrell screamed in STII- that was from the "pets."

The Klingon dude who blew up the Grissom screamed too. Although admittedly that was a disruptor effect, I suspect disruptors and phasers are two different names for identical technologies.

Even if they do work like transporters, there's no reason why you wouldn't scream--if the transporter didn't work fast enough, and take your central nervous system apart first.

Of course, the energy required to disassemble a human body is a major problem with transporters, too. And where does all that heat go, and how? Accelerating a body to the speeds ordinarily assumed transporters take is also a big issue--a 100kg guy requires between a hundredth and a tenth as much energy to be accelerated to .9c (10^19 J) as is contained in the nuclear arsenal of the planet Earth (estimating as between 10^20 to 10^21 J)--and people say fusion power can run a transporter. On the other hand, the total energy conversion some people like to speculate about is ridiculously energetic, but would explain where the extra mass for Evil Kirk and Tom Riker came from, since an amount of antimatter of the same mass would be required to transport anyone.

This kind of transporter beam, however, if focused on any given area, would act like a gamma ray laser, or gaser, and completely ionize any material through which it was traveling, and nothing much other than large stretches of dense, metallic matter would be able to stop it.

In either case, it's also an open question where that energy goes when he stops. Transporters don't usually make either state-sized craters on the ground or pillars of plasma descending into the mantle.

 

[Peter the Younger]

If it actually removes the atomic bonds holding them together, anything around the target will be bathed in radiation.

Ummm... no to that as well. Phasers disintegrate matter in the same way a tranporter beam does- selectively. Where the beam stops is what gets saturated, & only molocules of similar density in contact to the saturated object can absorb the "radiation," as you so quaintly put it.

I'm not talking about the beam, I'm talking about what happens when 90 kg worth of human gets liberated from the atomic bonds holding it together. In any semi-realistic depiction, the result would be lots and lots of quaint radiation.

I think the point of Peter's questions are about how real world physics would really come into play if we had Treknology. Akin to the old question of why do we hear sound f/x and see fireball explosions as well as FTL torpdoes in normal space.

Quite right. Thought I made it pretty clear in my previous post, but yeah, I'm aware that nadions can do what ever the plot requires them to. My point is that phaser disintegration is definitely on the plushy-squishy side of sci-fi.

 

[Chrisisall]

a 100kg guy requires between a hundredth and a tenth as much energy to be accelerated to .9c (10^19 J) as is contained in the nuclear arsenal of the planet Earth (estimating as between 10^20 to 10^21 J)--and people say fusion power can run a transporter. On the other hand, the total energy conversion some people like to speculate about is ridiculously energetic, but would explain where the extra mass for Evil Kirk and Tom Riker came from, since an amount of antimatter of the same mass would be required to transport anyone.

There's a lot of long words there; we're not but humble pirates.

 

[Myasishchev]

Sorry about the ranty tone.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I've seen nothing to indicate it works like a transporter.

Disassemble & dematerialize both begin with a "D."

Because people were speculating it could feel like being boiled alive suggest some kind of heat-based vaporization.

Speculation is the key word. Ever see someone on TOS scream as they were being vapourized? And DO NOT point out that Tyrell screamed in STII- that was from the "pets."

Speculation by people who used phasers that vaporized people and were dealing with Klingon disruptors. I think they'd have a bit better of an idea on how the thing works and their dialog doesn't suggest a transporter-based weapon.

As for screaming, the chick in The Most Toys screamed while being vaporized (although that was a specially painful one). I'm not going to rewatch every episode where some was disitigrated by energy weapon to give you an answer. My guess is that it was too fast for any real reaction, regardless of how it felt or the process that made it work.

 

[Chrisisall]

Speculation by people who used phasers that vaporized people and were dealing with Klingon disruptors. I think they'd have a bit better of an idea on how the thing works and their dialog doesn't suggest a transporter-based weapon.

Could you please use the universal Translator on that one? I'm TOTALLY not getting the point here.

As for screaming, the chick in The Most Toys screamed while being vaporized (although that was a specially painful one). I'm not going to rewatch every episode where some was disitigrated by energy weapon to give you an answer. My guess is that it was too fast for any real reaction, regardless of how it felt or the process that made it work.

Please watch City on The Edge to see a guy fry himself, and exhibit no painful reaction in the process. Logically, if it happened too fast for any real reaction, it happened too fast to even produce one.

 

[Trevacious]

I'm kinda sick of the "take cover!" style gunfights we've seen with phasers in DS9/VOY. One guy with a hand phaser should be able to take out an entire batallion if he's in line-on-sight.

Yeah! Why keep shooting bursts? Just vapourize the bulkhead your opponent is hiding behind, & him WITH it!!!

There ya go. Likewise, I remember seeing such a firefight in TNG's "Too Short A Season," and wondering why Tasha didn't just set her phaser to wide-beam stun and mow 'em all down with a sweep of her hand.

 

[Chrisisall]

I remember seeing such a firefight in TNG's "Too Short A Season," and wondering why Tasha didn't just set her phaser to wide-beam stun and mow 'em all down with a sweep of her hand.

Sometimes, "evolving beyond that" ain't all that helpful.

 

[CLIFF2020]

In TOS, the phasers emitted a continous beam for as long as the trigger was depressed, and it either de-materialized something, or at a lower setting, stunned living organisms.
In the movies, it changed to a "pulse" not unlike in Star Wars, and suddenly went from de-materializing (STII) to being able to blast a person backward some 15 feet (STIII). Later it could melt holes through people, and de-materialize selected objects with selected densities (STVI).
In Nemesis, the pulses were longer in duration, and de-materializing seemed to be no longer possible at all as a function.
In the newest flick, the pulses shortened to an almost bullet-sized burst.

Are you happy with it's evolution? Do you long for a standard from any particular incarnation?
Do you care at all, or is it just "gun" to you?

It is a pet peeve of mine that they have weekend the phasers and made them more cheesy. But still love all the shows

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I prefer Bolts to Beams given that in the TNG-era and older, you stood still holding the phaser for WAAAAYYYY too long in a fire fight.

If you faced somebody with bullets, you'd get shot for standing still too long holding your phaser beam still.

Shoot & Scoot / Hide behind cover is FAR more realistic.

Continuous Beams makes FAR more sense for Vessels / StarShips / Vehicles to use.

 

[comsol]

How do hand phasers do against zombie threads?

 

[drt]

How do hand phasers do against zombie threads?

I originally read that as "zombie threats" and was thinking to myself, "probably pretty well with the whole disintegration thing" before realizing what you had actually posted, lol.

 

[1001001]

It is a pet peeve of mine that they have weekend the phasers and made them more cheesy. But still love all the shows

First, welcome to the board.

Second, please take some time to review the rules for posting here, specifically the one regarding resurrecting dead threads. The rules are pinned at the top of this forum.

This thread has been dead for almost 13 years.

Let’s let it Rest In Peace, shall we?