HAL: a Diagnosis?

[Expo67]

MGM really needs to adapt 2061 and 3001 into movies.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

I think Tom Hanks said at one point that he would have liked to have adapted them.

 

[Expo67]

I think Tom Hanks said at one point that he would have liked to have adapted them.

He did say that. Unfortunately, MGM wasn't interested at the time. More than likely due to the financial problems that MGM has been plagued with for several years, now.

Hopefully, that situation will change.

If Tom Hanks is behind such a project, or two projects for that matter, it is most certainly in very good hands.

Hanks has cited that 2001 and 2010 are his favorite movies.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity.

AFAIK, Clarke openly states this very thing in the foreword to 3001.

 

[David cgc]

If you'll notice from HAL's comments in the original film, he was trying to give Dave and Frank subtle hints that things weren't right. This is because, as we would later learn in 2010, HAL had been ordered to conceal the truth of the mission from them. So HAL was trying to clue them in as best he could, so they'd investigate and find out on their own.

I'm fairly sure it's not intentional (especially since I read that Douglas Rain was given HAL's lines out of order and without context to ensure an affectless reading), but I always felt a change in HAL's tone of voice after he tries to get Dave to ask if there's anything weird about the mission. It's striking to me that you can actually hear the second HAL snaps when he interrupts himself. "Just a moment... just a moment." And that's the second when HAL really starts lying.

 

[MLJames]

My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity.

AFAIK, Clarke openly states this very thing in the foreword to 3001.

Earlier than that; it's from the foreward to 2061.

 

[Whofan]

I think Michael Crichton used a similar technique to Clarke's approach with The Lost World novel. In the first book, it's quite clear Malcolm is dead by the end and is left on the island when it's destroyed. However, Spielberg's film adaptation had Malcolm survive at the end (Plus Goldblum's acting of the character was one of the film's highlights) so Malcolm not only survives in the book sequel, he's the main character as well. So the TLW novel is more a sequel to the first film.

 

[Christopher]

^Yup. It's just good business to make your sequel consistent with the better-known version of the story, and sadly, that's pretty much always going to be the movie rather than the book. By the same token, comic book series have often adopted concepts and characters from their radio, film, or TV adaptations.

Though as I said, Clarke never cared much about continuity among his books anyway, so it wasn't really much of an issue for him.

And there are exceptions, book series that keep things true to the books regardless of what the movies do. Like the Harry Potter books -- although those are popular enough that there's not really that much pressure to conform to the films, plus the books had considerable lead time over their respective film adaptations.

 

[Set Harth]

MGM really needs to adapt 2061 and 3001 into movies.

For some reason, I don't see 2061 being that great a movie without major changes to the book.

And for those who want to see the ending of 3001 in a film, there's always Independence Day.

 

[Myasishchev]

MGM really needs to adapt 2061 and 3001 into movies.

For some reason, I don't see 2061 being that great a movie without major changes to the book.

And for those who want to see the ending of 3001 in a film, there's always Independence Day.

It's actually a bit more plausible in 3001 (not much more), but I always thought it was a misstep that Clarke added a little note to the book actively drawing attention to the parallels and the unlikelihood of the monoliths permitting HALman access to the monoliths' physical controls.

Actually, I always wondered why the monoliths weren't permitted--by the author--to just kill everybody. It's not like there was a 4001 in the pipeline. Maybe it just would not have been very nice, but Childhood's End doesn't have a nice ending either.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Well, in 2061, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to 3001.

Have you ever read Lost Worlds Of 2001? It contains a bunch of chapters from earlier drafts of the novel, including ones where Bowman and the other astronauts are exposed to the civilization behind the Monolith (and see Clindar, from "Expedition To Earth"). It contains some of the most beautiful descriptions of an alien civilization that I've ever read. I highly recommend grabbing it if you can track down a copy.

I had 2001, and Lost Worlds of 2001 ages back in 8th grade. A friend borrowed them I never got them back. I had completely forgotten about Lost Worlds of 2001,now I really have to go find these all over again.

That's funny; the very same thing happened to me and at about the same age (only it was my uncle who lost the book). I didn't get it again until I started buying books online.

Yeah, they're all good-- 2061 is probably my favorite-- but 3001 did let me down a bit (I hate to say that, because ACC is my favorite writer). Aside from abandoning some plotlines I was very interested in, he did some major retconning of the series.

My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity. For instance, the original novel has some substantial differences from the movie (in the novel they go to Saturn rather than Jupiter), but the novel 2010 is a sequel to the movie 2001 rather than the book 2001.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I think "variations on a theme" was the phrase he used. He's my favorite writer, but he kind of drove me crazy with that.

 

[Myasishchev]

^^ Well, in 2061, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to 3001.

Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.

Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).

2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.

Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.

Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).

I don't know the specifics discussed in the book you're referring to, but space elevators rely on tensile strength, not compressive. The center of mass is in geosynchronous orbit and the elevator hangs down to the surface from there. So it's necessary to find a material with sufficient tensile strength to support all that weight. These days, we know that carbon nanotubes are probably the answer, but even before nanotubes were discovered, it was expected that some sort of diamondlike carbon-based fiber would be the only thing strong enough. Clarke assumed as much in The Fountains of Paradise, the seminal SF novel about space elevators, and it stands to reason that he would've used the same principles when writing about space elevators in a later work.

2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.

Huh? You mean the actor Roy Scheider was in the book? Or do you mean Heywood Floyd, the character played by William Sylvester in the film 2001 and by Scheider in the film 2010?

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Well, in 2061, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to 3001.

Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.

Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).

Yeah, it was a big chunk of diamond from Jupiter's core that hit Europa ( and knocked down the Monolith) and was slowly sinking. The rest of the pieces of the core were in solar orbit.

Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.

Well, some things carried through and some didn't. Frank Poole was found floating around following his temporary demise at the hands of HAL and the original Monolith from Olduvai was discovered. But it was stated that the Monolith gave Halman some leeway and that he was able to take some control, but whether that was a result of the damage in 2061 or a retcon wasn't clear to me.

 

[Christopher]

Well, some things carried through and some didn't. Frank Poole was found floating around following his temporary demise at the hands of HAL and the original Monolith from Olduvai was discovered.

But those are just from the original 2001. The point is that the three sequels were all alternate continuations of the original, rather than being in continuity with one another.

 

[RJDiogenes]

There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's 2061 that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.

 

[Myasishchev]

Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.

Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.

Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).

I don't know the specifics discussed in the book you're referring to, but space elevators rely on tensile strength, not compressive. The center of mass is in geosynchronous orbit and the elevator hangs down to the surface from there. So it's necessary to find a material with sufficient tensile strength to support all that weight. These days, we know that carbon nanotubes are probably the answer, but even before nanotubes were discovered, it was expected that some sort of diamondlike carbon-based fiber would be the only thing strong enough. Clarke assumed as much in The Fountains of Paradise, the seminal SF novel about space elevators, and it stands to reason that he would've used the same principles when writing about space elevators in a later work.

And if one looked very carefully, it was just possible to make out the thin thread of the Panama Tower, one of the six umbilical cords of diamond linking Earth and its scattered children, soaring twenty-six thousand kilometres up from the equator to meet the Ring around the World.

'Go closer to the window,' she said, very softly. 'So that you can look straight down. I hope you have a good head for heights.'


What a silly thing to say to an astronaut! Poole told himself as he moved forward. If I ever suffered from vertigo, I wouldn't be in this business...


The thought had barely passed through his mind when he cried 'My God!' and involuntarily stepped back from the window. Then, bracing himself, he dared to look again.


He was looking down on the distant Mediterranean from the face of a cylindrical tower, whose gently curving wall indicated a diameter of several kilometres. But that was nothing compared with its length, for it tapered away down, down, down - until it disappeared into the mist somewhere over Africa. He
assumed that it continued all the way to the surface.

To my understanding, it appears that Clarke used a compressive tower design (and calls 'em towers, and never calls 'em "tethers") in 2061 and 3001. The ring would be effectively weightless but I don't think there's a mention of a counterweight or anything like that.

It is, however, only explicitly diamond in 2061. But given the significance attributed to the diamond in 2061, I don't think it's too much to assume that the same diamond was used in 3001, albeit reduced from six towers' worth to four.

Note: this is not at all an argument that such construction would work. It wouldn't, for a number of reasons (compressive strength of diamond or other, even stronger materials is still probably too low; diamond cleaves and an impact would, I believe, smash an elevator quite badly; more speculatively, diamond oxidizes into CO2 or CO or decomposes into graphite in extreme conditions, which the upper atmosphere and open space both qualify as).

2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.

Huh? You mean the actor Roy Scheider was in the book? Or do you mean Heywood Floyd, the character played by William Sylvester in the film 2001 and by Scheider in the film 2010?

The latter, Christopher, I mean the latter. Just a little joke (very little, evidently).

There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's 2061 that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.

The Galaxy's crash on Europa is referenced specifically, and the above-noted space elevators in the epilogue carry through as a concept.

Without rereading it entirely, I want to imagine that the other two got knocked down and no one wants to tell Poole because most of the time he's in one, or standing next to one, and that's just a ghoulish thing to do.

 

[Christopher]

The reference to "umbilical cords" in the 2061 quote suggests a tension cable design rather than a compressive tower, although it is actually called a "Tower." I'd call it indeterminate there.

 

[RJDiogenes]

There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's 2061 that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.

The Galaxy's crash on Europa is referenced specifically, and the above-noted space elevators in the epilogue carry through as a concept.

Thanks. I had forgotten about the Galaxy reference.