HAL: a Diagnosis?
- Thread starter Gov Kodos
- Start date
<div class="bbWrapper">I think Tom Hanks said at one point that he would have liked to have adapted them.</div>
Expo67
Captain
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Capt_Pickirk" data-source="post: 4947476"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4947476"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4947476">Capt_Pickirk said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
I think Tom Hanks said at one point that he would have liked to have adapted them.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote> <br />
He did say that. Unfortunately, MGM wasn't interested at the time. More than likely due to the financial problems that MGM has been plagued with for several years, now.<br />
<br />
Hopefully, that situation will change.<br />
<br />
If Tom Hanks is behind such a project, or two projects for that matter, it is most certainly in very good hands.<br />
<br />
Hanks has cited that 2001 and 2010 are his favorite movies.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Christopher" data-source="post: 4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4946738">Christopher said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
AFAIK, Clarke openly states this very thing in the foreword to <i>3001</i>.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Mr. Laser Beam" data-source="post: 4945830"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4945830"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4945830">Mr. Laser Beam said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
If you'll notice from HAL's comments in the original film, he was trying to give Dave and Frank subtle hints that things weren't right. This is because, as we would later learn in <i>2010</i>, HAL had been ordered to conceal the truth of the mission from them. So HAL was trying to clue them in as best he could, so they'd investigate and find out on their own.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
I'm fairly sure it's not intentional (especially since I read that Douglas Rain was given HAL's lines out of order and without context to ensure an affectless reading), but I always felt a change in HAL's tone of voice after he tries to get Dave to ask if there's anything weird about the mission. It's striking to me that you can actually hear the second HAL snaps when he interrupts himself. "Just a moment... just a moment." And that's the second when HAL <i>really</i> starts lying.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Mr. Laser Beam" data-source="post: 4947776"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4947776"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4947776">Mr. Laser Beam said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Christopher" data-source="post: 4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4946738">Christopher said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote> <br />
AFAIK, Clarke openly states this very thing in the foreword to <i>3001</i>.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote> <br />
Earlier than that; it's from the foreward to <i>2061. </i></div>
<div class="bbWrapper">I think Michael Crichton used a similar technique to Clarke's approach with The Lost World novel. In the first book, it's quite clear Malcolm is dead by the end and is left on the island when it's destroyed. However, Spielberg's film adaptation had Malcolm survive at the end (Plus Goldblum's acting of the character was one of the film's highlights) so Malcolm not only survives in the book sequel, he's the main character as well. So the TLW novel is more a sequel to the first film.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper">^Yup. It's just good business to make your sequel consistent with the better-known version of the story, and sadly, that's pretty much always going to be the movie rather than the book. By the same token, comic book series have often adopted concepts and characters from their radio, film, or TV adaptations.<br />
<br />
Though as I said, Clarke never cared much about continuity among his books anyway, so it wasn't really much of an issue for him.<br />
<br />
And there are exceptions, book series that keep things true to the books regardless of what the movies do. Like the Harry Potter books -- although those are popular enough that there's not really that much pressure to conform to the films, plus the books had considerable lead time over their respective film adaptations.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Expo67" data-source="post: 4947304"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4947304"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4947304">Expo67 said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
MGM really needs to adapt 2061 and 3001 into movies.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
For some reason, I don't see 2061 being that great a movie without major changes to the book.<br />
<br />
And for those who want to see the ending of 3001 in a film, there's always <i>Independence Day</i>.<img src="/styles/flatawesome/xenforo/smilies/thumbsup.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":techman:" title="Thumbsup :techman:" data-shortname=":techman:" /></div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Set Harth" data-source="post: 4948784"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4948784"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4948784">Set Harth said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Expo67" data-source="post: 4947304"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4947304"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4947304">Expo67 said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
MGM really needs to adapt 2061 and 3001 into movies.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
For some reason, I don't see 2061 being that great a movie without major changes to the book.<br />
<br />
And for those who want to see the ending of 3001 in a film, there's always <i>Independence Day</i>.<img src="/styles/flatawesome/xenforo/smilies/thumbsup.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":techman:" title="Thumbsup :techman:" data-shortname=":techman:" />
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><img src="/styles/flatawesome/xenforo/smilies/lol.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Lol :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> It's actually a bit more plausible in 3001 (not much more), but I always thought it was a misstep that Clarke added a little note to the book actively drawing attention to the parallels and the unlikelihood of the monoliths permitting HALman access to the monoliths' physical controls.<br />
<br />
Actually, I always wondered why the monoliths weren't permitted--by the author--to just kill everybody. It's not like there was a <i>4001 </i>in the pipeline. Maybe it just would not have been very nice, but Childhood's End doesn't have a nice ending either.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper">^^ Well, in <i>2061</i>, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to <i>3001</i>.<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Gov Kodos" data-source="post: 4946718"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4946718"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4946718">Gov Kodos said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Have you ever read <i>Lost Worlds Of 2001</i>? It contains a bunch of chapters from earlier drafts of the novel, including ones where Bowman and the other astronauts are exposed to the civilization behind the Monolith (and see Clindar, from "Expedition To Earth"). It contains some of the most beautiful descriptions of an alien civilization that I've ever read. I highly recommend grabbing it if you can track down a copy.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>I had <i>2001</i>, and <i>Lost Worlds of 2001 </i>ages back in 8th grade. A friend borrowed them I never got them back. I had completely forgotten about <i>Lost Worlds of 2001</i>,now I really have to go find these all over again.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>That's funny; the very same thing happened to me and at about the same age (only it was my uncle who lost the book). I didn't get it again until I started buying books online.<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Christopher" data-source="post: 4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4946738"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4946738">Christopher said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source="post: 4946669"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4946669"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4946669">RJDiogenes said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Yeah, they're all good-- <i>2061 </i>is probably my favorite-- but <i>3001 </i>did let me down a bit (I hate to say that, because ACC is my favorite writer). Aside from abandoning some plotlines I was very interested in, he did some major retconning of the series.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
My impression was that every book in that "series" was a distinct interpretation/continuity. For instance, the original novel has some substantial differences from the movie (in the novel they go to Saturn rather than Jupiter), but the novel <i>2010</i> is a sequel to the movie <i>2001</i> rather than the book <i>2001</i>.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>Yeah, that's exactly right. I think "variations on a theme" was the phrase he used. He's my favorite writer, but he kind of drove me crazy with that. <img src="/styles/flatawesome/xenforo/smilies/rommie.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rommie:" title="Rommie :rommie:" data-shortname=":rommie:" /></div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source="post: 4949153"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4949153"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4949153">RJDiogenes said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
^^ Well, in <i>2061</i>, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to <i>3001</i>.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.<br />
<br />
Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).<br />
<br />
2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Myasishchev" data-source="post: 4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4949847">Myasishchev said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
I don't know the specifics discussed in the book you're referring to, but space elevators rely on tensile strength, not compressive. The center of mass is in geosynchronous orbit and the elevator hangs down to the surface from there. So it's necessary to find a material with sufficient tensile strength to support all that weight. These days, we know that carbon nanotubes are probably the answer, but even before nanotubes were discovered, it was expected that some sort of diamondlike carbon-based fiber would be the only thing strong enough. Clarke assumed as much in <i>The Fountains of Paradise</i>, the seminal SF novel about space elevators, and it stands to reason that he would've used the same principles when writing about space elevators in a later work.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
Huh? You mean the actor Roy Scheider was in the book? Or do you mean Heywood Floyd, the character played by William Sylvester in the film <i>2001</i> and by Scheider in the film <i>2010</i>?</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Myasishchev" data-source="post: 4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4949847">Myasishchev said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source="post: 4949153"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4949153"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4949153">RJDiogenes said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
^^ Well, in <i>2061</i>, HAL was able to start taking control of the Monolith after it was damaged by an impact with a fragment of Jupiter's core; but I don't think that carried through to <i>3001</i>.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.<br />
<br />
Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>Yeah, it was a big chunk of diamond from Jupiter's core that hit Europa ( and knocked down the Monolith) and was slowly sinking. The rest of the pieces of the core were in solar orbit.<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Christopher" data-source="post: 4950183"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4950183"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4950183">Christopher said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>Well, some things carried through and some didn't. Frank Poole was found floating around following his temporary demise at the hands of HAL and the original Monolith from Olduvai was discovered. But it was stated that the Monolith gave Halman some leeway and that he was able to take some control, but whether that was a result of the damage in <i>2061</i> or a retcon wasn't clear to me.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source="post: 4951382"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4951382"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4951382">RJDiogenes said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Well, some things carried through and some didn't. Frank Poole was found floating around following his temporary demise at the hands of HAL and the original Monolith from Olduvai was discovered.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
But those are just from the original <i>2001</i>. The point is that the three sequels were all alternate continuations of the original, rather than being in continuity with one another.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper">There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's <i>2061 </i>that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Christopher" data-source="post: 4950183"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4950183"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4950183">Christopher said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Myasishchev" data-source="post: 4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4949847"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4949847">Myasishchev said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Yeah, I don't know how that carries to other thousand.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
Haven't we already established that there's no continuity among the books, that each is an alternate variation on the theme? So nothing would really carry through from one sequel to the next.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
Was it the big diamond mountain? I liked how that was the justification for the space elevators (although iirc even diamond actually does not have the compressive strength to serve as a tower-style elevator).
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>I don't know the specifics discussed in the book you're referring to, but space elevators rely on tensile strength, not compressive. The center of mass is in geosynchronous orbit and the elevator hangs down to the surface from there. So it's necessary to find a material with sufficient tensile strength to support all that weight. These days, we know that carbon nanotubes are probably the answer, but even before nanotubes were discovered, it was expected that some sort of diamondlike carbon-based fiber would be the only thing strong enough. Clarke assumed as much in <i>The Fountains of Paradise</i>, the seminal SF novel about space elevators, and it stands to reason that he would've used the same principles when writing about space elevators in a later work.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Arthur Clarke" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
Arthur Clarke said:
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
And if one looked very carefully, it was just possible to make out the thin thread of the Panama Tower, one of the six umbilical cords of diamond linking Earth and its scattered children, soaring twenty-six thousand kilometres up from the equator to meet the Ring around the World.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Arthur Clarke" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
Arthur Clarke said:
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
'Go closer to the window,' she said, very softly. 'So that you can look straight down. I hope you have a good head for heights.'<br />
<br />
<br />
What a silly thing to say to an astronaut! Poole told himself as he moved forward. If I ever suffered from vertigo, I wouldn't be in this business...<br />
<br />
<br />
The thought had barely passed through his mind when he cried 'My God!' and involuntarily stepped back from the window. Then, bracing himself, he dared to look again.<br />
<br />
<br />
He was looking down on the distant Mediterranean from the face of <b>a cylindrical tower, whose gently curving wall indicated a diameter of several kilometres</b>. But that was nothing compared with its length, for it tapered away down, down, down - until it disappeared into the mist somewhere over Africa. He <br />
assumed that it continued all the way to the surface.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
To my understanding, it appears that Clarke used a compressive tower design (and calls 'em towers, and never calls 'em "tethers") in 2061 and 3001. The ring would be effectively weightless but I don't think there's a mention of a counterweight or anything like that.<br />
<br />
It is, however, only explicitly diamond in 2061. But given the significance attributed to the diamond in 2061, I don't think it's too much to assume that the same diamond was used in 3001, albeit reduced from six towers' worth to four.<br />
<br />
Note: this is not at all an argument that such construction <i>would work</i>. It wouldn't, for a number of reasons (compressive strength of diamond or other, even stronger materials is still probably too low; diamond cleaves and an impact would, I believe, smash an elevator quite badly; more speculatively, diamond oxidizes into CO2 or CO or decomposes into graphite in extreme conditions, which the upper atmosphere and open space both qualify as).<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
2061 was a pretty cool book, really. It had Roy Scheider in it.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>Huh? You mean the actor Roy Scheider was in the book? Or do you mean Heywood Floyd, the character played by William Sylvester in the film <i>2001</i> and by Scheider in the film <i>2010</i>?
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>The latter, <b>Christopher</b>, I mean the latter. Just a little joke (very little, evidently).<br />
<br />
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
RJDiogenes said:
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's <i>2061 </i>that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
The Galaxy's crash on Europa is referenced specifically, and the above-noted space elevators in the epilogue carry through as a concept.<br />
<br />
Without rereading it entirely, I want to imagine that the other two got knocked down and no one wants to tell Poole because most of the time he's in one, or standing next to one, and that's just a ghoulish thing to do. <img src="/styles/flatawesome/xenforo/smilies/shifty.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":shifty:" title="Shifty :shifty:" data-shortname=":shifty:" /></div>
Last edited:
<div class="bbWrapper">The reference to "umbilical cords" in the <i>2061</i> quote suggests a tension cable design rather than a compressive tower, although it is actually called a "Tower." I'd call it indeterminate there.</div>
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Myasishchev" data-source="post: 4953760"
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
<a href="/goto/post?id=4953760"
class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump"
rel="nofollow"
data-xf-click="attribution"
data-content-selector="#post-4953760">Myasishchev said:</a>
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
<blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="RJDiogenes" data-source=""
class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
RJDiogenes said:
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent ">
There are still some elements that carried through: The second mission to Jupiter, life on Europa, the stellation of Jupiter, HAL joining Bowman. If anything, it's <i>2061 </i>that was ignored-- at this sleepy moment, I can't think of anything that carried through from that one.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote><br />
The Galaxy's crash on Europa is referenced specifically, and the above-noted space elevators in the epilogue carry through as a concept.
</div>
<div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>Thanks. I had forgotten about the Galaxy reference.</div>