Guess on the plot SPOILERS
- Thread starter TK421
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It was semi-canonized by an episode of TAS.
I like that. Alot. But I doubt they're going to hinge the entire movie on a single TOS episode that way.
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ST-One
Vice Admiral
I know who Robert April is (and to me he is indeed the first Captain of the Enterprise).
But I also agree with the notion that TAS is not to be considered part of the canon (I have only seen one episode... in German... with Captain Kirk having the dubbing voice of Captain Picard...)
If Star Trek changes the 'reality' of what we see as Trek-canon... so be it. I welcome it.
And why not? They did it with Khan, didn't they?
Look, Spock was a turd in that episode. They did the pon farr thing. He treated this lady like an empty bottle of cheap Romulan Ale, then tossed her to the side of the road. All for a rather temporary military advantage that the UFP later signed away in a treaty with the Romulans.
If you were the Son, wouldn't you want revenge? Makes one almost root for Nero.
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I acutally like the idea of Nero being the son of the Commander and Spock, and it would be the first logical plot point I've heard about this movie.
Nero is not going to be the love child between Spock and the Romulan Commander. Think about it: Abrams wants this movie to attract the average viewing audience, not just Trek nerds like us. So he's not going to base Nero's motivation on a plot point from one episode of 1960's Trek that the average viewing audience will most likely have never seen. Yeah, I know it worked for Wrath of Khan in the 1980's, but it won't work here in 2009.
However, this still doesn't answer the question: What is Nero's motivation for wanting to kill Kirk in the past? That is the one point that this movie HAS to be based on, and if Abrams and Co. give a flimsy excuse for it, the whole movie will be meaningless.
So what's his motivation? Here's my take:
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
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Nero is a prisoner on a 24th or 25th century Romulan prison ship, perhaps a political prisoner from an organization or cult that opposes Unification. Somehow he and his fellow prisoners take control of the ship, somehow use it to travel back in time to a point where he thinks he can kill Kirk for whatever THE REASON is that he hates Kirk so much. Unfortunately, he ends up going too far back and kills George when he thinks he's killing Jim. This is the start of the corrupted timeline. So he leaps forward to when Kirk is a cadet on the Enterprise. At this point (and this is just speculation on my part), the bridge will look more like the classic TOS bridge). He attacks the Enterprise, killing Pike in the process. This creates more corruption in the timeline. Because of the heroics of cadets Kirk, McCoy, Spock, and Uhura, they are later posted to the Enterprise as officers years later. However, the timeline has been significantly altered so that now there's more advanced technology by 2266 than there was in TOS.
But what is Nero's motivation for all this? Obviously, because both Nero and Old Spock are clearly from the post-Nemesis original TNG universe, this is not a reboot, but in fact a changing of the timeline to create an alternate reality that still fits into the "regular" ST story (unlike, say, the non-connection between the old BSG and the new BSG). I'm guessing that Unification has something to do with it, and the fact that because old Spock is still alive and following Nero (and possibly making contact with his younger self to warn him that a crazy Romulan from the future is trying to kill him), that Nero decides to kill Kirk instead. But that's still a flimsy theory.
However, this still doesn't answer the question: What is Nero's motivation for wanting to kill Kirk in the past? That is the one point that this movie HAS to be based on, and if Abrams and Co. give a flimsy excuse for it, the whole movie will be meaningless.
So what's his motivation? Here's my take:
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
$
Nero is a prisoner on a 24th or 25th century Romulan prison ship, perhaps a political prisoner from an organization or cult that opposes Unification. Somehow he and his fellow prisoners take control of the ship, somehow use it to travel back in time to a point where he thinks he can kill Kirk for whatever THE REASON is that he hates Kirk so much. Unfortunately, he ends up going too far back and kills George when he thinks he's killing Jim. This is the start of the corrupted timeline. So he leaps forward to when Kirk is a cadet on the Enterprise. At this point (and this is just speculation on my part), the bridge will look more like the classic TOS bridge). He attacks the Enterprise, killing Pike in the process. This creates more corruption in the timeline. Because of the heroics of cadets Kirk, McCoy, Spock, and Uhura, they are later posted to the Enterprise as officers years later. However, the timeline has been significantly altered so that now there's more advanced technology by 2266 than there was in TOS.
But what is Nero's motivation for all this? Obviously, because both Nero and Old Spock are clearly from the post-Nemesis original TNG universe, this is not a reboot, but in fact a changing of the timeline to create an alternate reality that still fits into the "regular" ST story (unlike, say, the non-connection between the old BSG and the new BSG). I'm guessing that Unification has something to do with it, and the fact that because old Spock is still alive and following Nero (and possibly making contact with his younger self to warn him that a crazy Romulan from the future is trying to kill him), that Nero decides to kill Kirk instead. But that's still a flimsy theory.
I'm just speculating on what we've heard. I do sort of agree with you in that I wish it wasn't a time travel plot at all. It's been done so many times in Trek, so many different ways. I was a bit disappointed to hear that they were going to the time travel well yet again. But, I'm keeping an open mind about it all and just hoping for a good story.
I love the all laugh at Spock bit at the end.
If the crew does not all laugh at Spock at the end, I will boycott this film!!
Interesting ideas. I especially like the re-unification plotline. That's too big a deal to passover when dealing with a story that involves Spock and Romulans from the 24th century. I hope at least that part's right. Also, someone posted that George might not be Jim's dad. I twist like that would be cool, too.
If the crew does not all laugh at Spock at the end, I will boycott this film!!
Preferably laughing after several people have had horrible, lingering deaths. Preferably at least one being a character we've never seen before who EVERYONE is shown to be best friends with.
And tribbles. There have to be lots of tribbles. If they have to die horribly too, all right, but they've got to be there.
If the crew does not all laugh at Spock at the end, I will boycott this film!!
Preferably laughing after several people have had horrible, lingering deaths. Preferably at least one being a character we've never seen before who EVERYONE is shown to be best friends with.
And tribbles. There have to be lots of tribbles. If they have to die horribly too, all right, but they've got to be there.
All those who died horrible lingering deaths will of course be redshirts.
Oh and there's this:
According to one of the sidebars in the EW article, a tribble will be seen in the film. Truthfully. No word on whether or not the tribble will die a horrible death.
It might be even simpler than that. The interviews have made it sound like these guys are more like pirates/criminals than organized soldiers. Perhaps Spock is responsible for capturing and imprisoning Nero and his scallywags... and following their escape, they've gone back in time to Spock's personal past to get revenge and generally run amok.
section9, posting inline images not hosted on webspace not your own is considered bad form, generally, and is against board policy. (I'm fairly certain you're not Anthony's dual, so I've converted this to a link.) Please register an account with a hosting service such as Photobucket so if you wish to post images; that way no one is stepping on anyone's toes, bandwidth-wise.
Pity you noticed that but didn't find the 'Notify Mod' button, or I could have done something about it sooner.
Putting together all the speculations in this thread, Nero sounds like Peter Petrelli. WHY! CAN'T! I! CHANGE! THIS! FRAKKIN! TIMELINE!!!!! 
Everyone always underestimates the difficulty of changing history.
Mmmmm...fanficcish. And disturbing, since for whatever reason I always envision the Commander being the same person as our very own T'Bonz.
Everyone always underestimates the difficulty of changing history.
Mmmmm...fanficcish. And disturbing, since for whatever reason I always envision the Commander being the same person as our very own T'Bonz.
Putting together all the speculations in this thread, Nero sounds like Peter Petrelli. WHY! CAN'T! I! CHANGE! THIS! FRAKKIN! TIMELINE!!!!!
Everyone always underestimates the difficulty of changing history.
Mmmmm...fanficcish. And disturbing, since for whatever reason I always envision the Commander being the same person as our very own T'Bonz.
I would just like to point out that I'm a happily married man, but I'm finding your AVs constantly, er, engaging.
Please stop it.
Here's my two cents on that opening scene:
Sometime in mid 23d century, the USS Kelvin travels home after a routine mission.
Suddenly, another ship materializes out of nowhere. "Part Death Star, part Mordor" (copyright EW), the vessel looks like nothing Captain Robau, the Kelvin's commander-in-chief, his second-in-command George Kirk and the rest of the crew have ever seen. Without a warning, a swarm of fighters emerge from the alien vessel and start a vicious attack on the Kelvin. The battle is ferocious but brief: the human ship his no match to it's highly advanced (and anonymous) foe. Soon the proud ship is vapourised, with all hands lost...
Cut to the alien ship's bridge. In a throne-like chair, a bald, pointy-eared, tattooed alien smiles in triumph. "Goodbye George Kirk, not anymore father of James T. Kirk!", he says with a evil grin.
However...
On Earth, a woman awakens from her sleep with a cry. "George!", she shouts. It's Winona Kirk, George's wife, now his widow. Somehow she sensed his beloved husband untimely end. She's carrying her second child, and the shock causes her to pass out.
A few hours later, at the hospital, a doctor tells Frank, George's brother, that her sister-in-law is dead. "And the baby?" he asks. "The baby's fine!" the doctor answers.
And so happens the FIRST alteration in the timeline:
James Kirk and his older brother will not be raised by their tender, caring parents (now dead) but by their abusing, bullying, alcoholic uncle Frank.
All thanks to Nero, and it's ignorance of the human female reproduction cicle!
This corruption of the timeline begs me to ask the following question:
Will this be the same James T. Kirk? Surely a different upbringing will lead to different traits of personality in our hero?
We all know that the movie will feature the Kobayashi Maru test and how Kirk cheated it, but my guess is that the result won't be the "I got a commendation for original thinking" we knew, but rather a "Leave these premisses right now, young man" speech.
I'm guessing again that Spock (either the young or the old one) will save the day...
What do you think?
Sometime in mid 23d century, the USS Kelvin travels home after a routine mission.
Suddenly, another ship materializes out of nowhere. "Part Death Star, part Mordor" (copyright EW), the vessel looks like nothing Captain Robau, the Kelvin's commander-in-chief, his second-in-command George Kirk and the rest of the crew have ever seen. Without a warning, a swarm of fighters emerge from the alien vessel and start a vicious attack on the Kelvin. The battle is ferocious but brief: the human ship his no match to it's highly advanced (and anonymous) foe. Soon the proud ship is vapourised, with all hands lost...
Cut to the alien ship's bridge. In a throne-like chair, a bald, pointy-eared, tattooed alien smiles in triumph. "Goodbye George Kirk, not anymore father of James T. Kirk!", he says with a evil grin.
However...
On Earth, a woman awakens from her sleep with a cry. "George!", she shouts. It's Winona Kirk, George's wife, now his widow. Somehow she sensed his beloved husband untimely end. She's carrying her second child, and the shock causes her to pass out.
A few hours later, at the hospital, a doctor tells Frank, George's brother, that her sister-in-law is dead. "And the baby?" he asks. "The baby's fine!" the doctor answers.
And so happens the FIRST alteration in the timeline:
James Kirk and his older brother will not be raised by their tender, caring parents (now dead) but by their abusing, bullying, alcoholic uncle Frank.
All thanks to Nero, and it's ignorance of the human female reproduction cicle!
This corruption of the timeline begs me to ask the following question:
Will this be the same James T. Kirk? Surely a different upbringing will lead to different traits of personality in our hero?
We all know that the movie will feature the Kobayashi Maru test and how Kirk cheated it, but my guess is that the result won't be the "I got a commendation for original thinking" we knew, but rather a "Leave these premisses right now, young man" speech.
I'm guessing again that Spock (either the young or the old one) will save the day...
What do you think?
Yah, sorry about the hotlink. I should have posted it to my photobucket account first. Thanks for linking to it anyway.
Anyway, I never thought of Nero as being the love child of Spock and the Romulan Commander, just as her kid. I think the plot device serves as a motivating factor.
Anyway, I never thought of Nero as being the love child of Spock and the Romulan Commander, just as her kid. I think the plot device serves as a motivating factor.
Ohh... this sounds pretty tight. I think you're on to something.
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