• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Guess on the plot SPOILERS

If Nero is taking revenge against Spock by picking his life apart piece by piece... I wonder if Sarek and Amanda will bite the dust. This might be the Heresy! moment that EW alluded to.

So, rather than winding up as well adjusted young officers at their first meeting (and becoming friends)... we could find a very different Kirk and Spock who have deeper issues (and are at each other's throats). Spock does appear to be pretty unbalanced in this film. Perhaps without Sarek and Amanda's guidance he hasn't been able to become the Spock we all know.

Meanwhile, Old Spock is forced to watch as the life he remembers falls to pieces around him as he frantically tries to pick up the pieces.
 
Who's April?

Captain Robert April was the first captain of the Enterprise when it was launched in 2245.

Not said onscreen, not official.

Besides, the point is April isn't mentioned in the previous steps leading up to the mention of April.

I think the use of "April" was a braincramp and "Pike" was meant.

That depends on whether you consider the Animated Series as Canon.

However, I think it's Christopher Pike we see, not Robert April.
 
Captain Robert April was the first captain of the Enterprise when it was launched in 2245.

Not said onscreen, not official.

Besides, the point is April isn't mentioned in the previous steps leading up to the mention of April.

I think the use of "April" was a braincramp and "Pike" was meant.

That depends on whether you consider the Animated Series as Canon.

However, I think it's Christopher Pike we see, not Robert April.

Robert April is canon. April came out of Gene Roddenberry's head. He was first commander of the Enterprise. It would be nice to see him made mention of, but you can only throw so many Easter Eggs at the fans.
 
Nero is not going to be the love child between Spock and the Romulan Commander. Think about it: Abrams wants this movie to attract the average viewing audience, not just Trek nerds like us. So he's not going to base Nero's motivation on a plot point from one episode of 1960's Trek that the average viewing audience will most likely have never seen. Yeah, I know it worked for Wrath of Khan in the 1980's, but it won't work here in 2009.

However, this still doesn't answer the question: What is Nero's motivation for wanting to kill Kirk in the past? That is the one point that this movie HAS to be based on, and if Abrams and Co. give a flimsy excuse for it, the whole movie will be meaningless.

So what's his motivation? Here's my take:
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
$
$
$
$
$
$

$
$
$
$
$

$
$
Nero is a prisoner on a 24th or 25th century Romulan prison ship, perhaps a political prisoner from an organization or cult that opposes Unification. Somehow he and his fellow prisoners take control of the ship, somehow use it to travel back in time to a point where he thinks he can kill Kirk for whatever THE REASON is that he hates Kirk so much. Unfortunately, he ends up going too far back and kills George when he thinks he's killing Jim. This is the start of the corrupted timeline. So he leaps forward to when Kirk is a cadet on the Enterprise. At this point (and this is just speculation on my part), the bridge will look more like the classic TOS bridge). He attacks the Enterprise, killing Pike in the process. This creates more corruption in the timeline. Because of the heroics of cadets Kirk, McCoy, Spock, and Uhura, they are later posted to the Enterprise as officers years later. However, the timeline has been significantly altered so that now there's more advanced technology by 2266 than there was in TOS.

But what is Nero's motivation for all this? Obviously, because both Nero and Old Spock are clearly from the post-Nemesis original TNG universe, this is not a reboot, but in fact a changing of the timeline to create an alternate reality that still fits into the "regular" ST story (unlike, say, the non-connection between the old BSG and the new BSG). I'm guessing that Unification has something to do with it, and the fact that because old Spock is still alive and following Nero (and possibly making contact with his younger self to warn him that a crazy Romulan from the future is trying to kill him), that Nero decides to kill Kirk instead. But that's still a flimsy theory.

Interesting ideas. I especially like the re-unification plotline. That's too big a deal to passover when dealing with a story that involves Spock and Romulans from the 24th century. I hope at least that part's right. Also, someone posted that George might not be Jim's dad. I twist like that would be cool, too.

Perhaps in the 24th Century, reunification may be succeeding. This might lead a very prejudiced group of Romulans (Nero and Gang) to resort to trying to desperate measures, and attempt to prevent Kirk's birth.

Once this fails (Kirk having been already Concieved before his father is killed on the USS Kelvin), he might then go Forward in time to the Original Series timeline, and go after Vulcan.

In the meantime, this plot is not revealed upfront, but looms in the background as Kirk and McCoy go through some shenannigans at Starfleet Academy, the Kobayashi Maru cheating (Kirk's moanising might be used to get access to the simulator computers), then meeting Spock as crewmen on the Enterprise under Pike.

Pike might be Killed or Injured (The EW article does mention the "doomed" Christopher Pike), Kirk takes command in an emergency (dispite being under probation due to Kobayashi Maru, hence no yellow shirt), and they try to solve the puzzle as to who and why they were attacked.

Enter Older Spock, who guides the younger Spock in solidifying his relationship with Kirk.

This is the birth of the very close, loyal friendship between Kirk and Spock, with McCoy already a close friend of Kirk from the Academy (both country boys, so they have a lot in common already).

Older Spock might be working in secret through his younger self (less contamination to the Timeline that way) to help find Nero and his gang.

At some point, the older Spock may be revealed to Kirk and McCoy when the younger spock appears to be acting "illogically" (scanning on specific frequencies for not readily apparent reason, for example).

I may even imagine Nero moving to attack Vulcan at some point.

In the process, it will be revealed what happened to the Kelvin (beyond a mysterious attacker looking for "Kirk" and destroying her who has never shown up again until recently).

In order to target Vulcan, Nero would probably need a lot of resources, which he could not bring back in time, hence the planetside missions.

Kirk's use of the Escape Pod might be a covert mission, taken without consulting his crew, to find Nero's "base".

The "creature" he encounters could be native to that icy planet, and after discovering the base, we get an action-packed finale to stop Nero from attacking Vulcan to prevent peace between Vulcan and Romulus.

Here's how this could fit in with general canon:

- Romulans not heard from for 100 years before Balance of Terror, yet attacking Kelvin: Crew of Kelvin don't know they are Romulans (Nero could be staying covert, and with Kelvin not surviving, sobody would know).
- Pike seeming to be Killed, but actually surviving and promoted to Fleet Captain, and passing command to Kirk sets up for "The Cage". Maybe a Canon issue. Or Kirk never meets him, but is brought on board to command the Enterprise by Spock on advice from Future Self.
- When Romulans are revealed for who they are, it is done only to certain Bridge crew, with a promise of secrecy. Might explain Spock's reaction in Balance of Terror to push for battle, and part of his respone may be to hide the knowledge of the previous encounter. They were not meant to encounter them.
 
OneBuckFilms: "Perhaps in the 24th Century, reunification may be succeeding. This might lead a very prejudiced group of Romulans (Nero and Gang) to resort to trying to desperate measures, and attempt to prevent Kirk's birth."

I like that!
 
Maybe it would be cool if Spock was the one trying to alter the past and Nero was the one trying to save it.
 
I keep thinking this movie just can't be all about seeing to it Kirk was born. It can't be about making sure Kirk went to the Academy. It can't just be about getting the crew together as they were meant to be. In other words, it can't be just about Spock scrambling around to correct a timeline best he can after Nero messed it up. There has to be something even bigger at stake. Tying things up while starting over again.

Suppose the movie starts in very early 25th century. It is a good time. All that Trek has ever stood for thematically, a bright future, peace, friendship, and progress is about to come to fruition quadrant-wide. After the Dominion War, after Shinzon's attempt to destroy Earth was thwarted, and because of the work of Spock on Romulus, the Romulans are now ready to enter into an unprecedented era of peace and understanding with the Federation. Everyone is "warred out." It is obvious that there is no gain to be made in conquest any more. The Romulans are even giving up their empire and entering into talks with the Vulcans about unification. A spirit of optimism pervades the quadrant.

Nero is the leader of a band of guerillas or profiteers who are resisting the demise of the empire. They see what Romulus is doing as an act of capitulation. They resent a "forced marriage" to the Vulcans, for whom they have no time.
The movie is set into motion by the opportunity Nero apparently has to alter the future by altering the past. It's more to him than just dealing with Kirk. It's dealing with Spock and the Vulcans, too. Anything must be done that may avoid the disgraceful future he sees for Romulus.

Though they may never know it, their first adventure together is the one that assures the manifestation of what Trek stood for in the first place.

Or whatever. But it allowed the fanboy in me to play a bit. ;)
 
Franklin,

I believe Kirk is still the likely target.

Without him, the crew of the Enterprise probably would not become the legends they became.

Also, Kirk's encounters with the Romulans in Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident provided great tactical advantage to the Federation.

After the Cloaking Device was stolen from them, the Federation and the Romulans entered into the Treaty of Algeron.

If the Federation had not gained the cloaking device, or the Romulan Bird of Prey was not thwarted by James Kirk in Balance of Terror, the Romulan Empire might have been more aggressive in dealing with a more clearly weak Federation.

In Nero's mind, this would make it an ideal change to bring victory, power and Greatness to the Romuln Empire.
 
Kirk IS Nero's target.
Otherwise, why would that nasty romulan attack his father's ship in the opening scene?
 
Franklin,

I believe Kirk is still the likely target.

Without him, the crew of the Enterprise probably would not become the legends they became.

Also, Kirk's encounters with the Romulans in Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident provided great tactical advantage to the Federation.

After the Cloaking Device was stolen from them, the Federation and the Romulans entered into the Treaty of Algeron.

If the Federation had not gained the cloaking device, or the Romulan Bird of Prey was not thwarted by James Kirk in Balance of Terror, the Romulan Empire might have been more aggressive in dealing with a more clearly weak Federation.

In Nero's mind, this would make it an ideal change to bring victory, power and Greatness to the Romuln Empire.

Eh, too Khanish. The earliest rumor had Nero and his merry band accidentally thrown back in time. Could be while they back there they were looking for any mischief that could disrupt the future in favor of the Romulans, Kirk's life was what presented itself. Purely a target of opportunity.

I'd like to think even wider ideas and principles are involved in what's happening, what's motivating the characters, and what's at stake in the movie beyond some vengeful late-24th century Romulan being pissed at Kirk specifically about something that happened way back in the 2260s, and an old Vulcan trying to restore a timeline that he somehow knows is wrong. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.
 
Robert April is canon. April came out of Gene Roddenberry's head. He was first commander of the Enterprise. It would be nice to see him made mention of, but you can only throw so many Easter Eggs at the fans.

Many things came out of Gene's head, including Deanna Troi having three...attributes.

Not everything he thought of was chosen, and the fact is onscreen is canon, nothing else. Since Gene also dismissed TAS, and since April has never been portrayed onscreen by an actor or mentioned onscreen, then this means April is NOT canon.
 
Kirk IS Nero's target.
Otherwise, why would that nasty romulan attack his father's ship in the opening scene?

If Nero's objective is to cause Spock pain, then it would make sense to hurt those around him. Causing his best friend to grow into a different person would be a good start.

All speculation, of course.
 
I acutally like the idea of Nero being the son of the Commander and Spock, and it would be the first logical plot point I've heard about this movie.

Or Spock & Savak.. and Savak being part Romulan, or somehow the Nero being brought up by romulans. :)
 
Kirk IS Nero's target.
Otherwise, why would that nasty romulan attack his father's ship in the opening scene?

If Nero's objective is to cause Spock pain, then it would make sense to hurt those around him. Causing his best friend to grow into a different person would be a good start.

All speculation, of course.

Putting two and two together with the Kelvin and the most reliable rumor that's been out there, they attack Kirk's father's ship because it's a target of opportunity. And, I agree with Kelso's specultion here. It is a good way to inflict pain on Spock. Without Kirk, what will Spock become? And, if it's done in a way where for at least a fleeting moment old Spock realizes this, then the pain would be terrible.
One has to believe that without Kirk, none of the other six would amount to what they actually became.
Also, one has to remember that while Kirk is probably central to the story, and a co-lead, this is still a Spock-centric story. Nimoy was actually crucial to the entire project. Spock is probably the protagonist, so I'd presume the antagonist acts on him. It's been a long time ago, but I remember reading something that Kirk doesn't even appear in the movie until a while into it.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top