Gotham - Season 1

[Christopher]

I liked it. Seeing the first meeting of Bruce Wayne and James Gordon was a potent moment. The cast is good, the production values are good, and the complexities of the situation in Gotham are engaging, even though I'm not generally a fan of stories in which almost everyone is corrupt. Although it does seem that Montoya is basically honorable as well as Gordon. Hopefully she (and Allen?) can become an ally.

The introductions of Nygma and Ivy seemed unnecessary here. I guess the idea with Ivy was to give her a reason to hate the police, but given that nearly the whole force is corrupt, they could've done that another way later on. As for Selina, she looks great, but she didn't really do anything except slink and skulk around. Although I assume there will be some followup to her witnessing the murder. Maybe she and Bruce will bond.

I was impressed by David Mazouz as Bruce. He conveys a lot of intelligence and intensity. The character is just what I would've expected the young Bruce to be -- a disciplined mind and a keen observer.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So, you didn't think that that was the Joker auditioning for Fish?

 

[Greg Cox]

So, you didn't think that that was the Joker auditioning for Fish?

That's what they want you to think, but . . .

 

[DarthPipes]

I thought it was great. Gotham City felt like an actual character again, something it wasn't during the last two Nolan movies (and I enjoyed those films).

McKenzie is a strong lead as Gordon and I agree with Christopher about the actor playing Bruce.

 

[TheSeeker]

Just finished watching it with my wife and she was surprised at how much she liked it, which I think is a very good sign for the series since she's not what I would call a big comic book fan. I really enjoyed it as well and can't wait to see where they go with it. I hope the redemption of Bullock has a large part to play in the overall series arc.

And I am in agreement with you Christopher with regards to the young actor they cast as Bruce. I thought he nailed the character. I even turned to my wife at one point and said how good he was.

All in all I would say this is a very promising start.

 

[Trekker4747]

That idea *did* pass through my mind, yes. But, more than likely not, The Joker wouldn't be much older than Bruce is as they're usually portrayed as -roughly- the same age.

Not too out of the realm of possibility, though.

Yeah, Selena was under-used here and not sure what role she was meant to play given that the show started on her and we watched her slink in out of scenes. So, be interesting to see where things go from here and if her and Bruce will bond. (Assuming they go more of the idea of Catwoman not strictly being a "bad" guy just not really a "good" guy either. She serves her own interests but has little aspirations of world/city domination.)

Oswald was great and I really do look forward to watching him grow and build an empire of his own. It does seem his odd walk was due to an injury but we also never got to really see him walk during the episode until after he was thrown in the narrows.

The use of Gotham's cityscapes for establishing shots was really well done. I look forward to just seeing how they build Gotham as a character.

Bullock was good as the cop who floats on both-sides of the line. And the guy doing Gordon did a really good job.

Barbara I'm not really sure on yet. It somehow felt sort of "odd" to see Gordon, a work-stiff cop in a terrible, grungy, city in such an elite apartment. I get Barbara is from money and it was her place but I'd think it'd fit the tone more if we saw Gordon in much more "average" apartment bordering on a tenement. Sort of along those lines also making Barbara more of a "everyday girl" instead of more of a society girl.

I find it odd that MCU's/Gotham PD's holding cell is... in their lobby?!

As the video up-thread said it is an interesting "timeless" mix of old and new. The 80s cars, the Gothic architecture, the modern cell-phones. Be fun to see how that tone and look plays out.

Overall I'm intrigued to see where it goes from here. Barring something really turning me off I'll likely stick with the show out of faithfulness to the property and I hope it lasts.

But, I again, I wonder how the procedural aspects will play out in the long-run.

And I really, really, hope we don't have winks to those in-the-know in the audience too often. I wonder if (Poison) Ivy is a recurring character of if this was a one-shot wink.

And, well, to be fair Gordon and Bullock didn't *strictly* kill an innocent man. The guy *did* flee from a questioning and attacked a police officer so while he may have been innocent from the Wayne's murder his death was pretty much of his own actions. (And really, one look at him should have told Gordon this guy did have clean, shiny, dress shoes.)

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I too felt that it was good, but could have been great. Too many cliches, too many. Every time the show started to get interesting, they would thrown in a cliche. However Gordon and Bullock have me convinced, there is enough here that Gotham can RISE above the pilot.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I liked Selena, especially how she had no dialogue and was given no backstory the way the other characters were. There is some mystery there. She was slightly "comic-booky" in her moves, but to be expected and not overdone. Made me think of Oliver Twist.

Gordon and Bullock were awesome, and a very strong pairing to carry the series. The good cop/bad cop was a bit over the top at times; the series will have an over the top feel I guess. It's meant to be gritty, but maybe not entirely "real."

Falcone was amazing. I love the character. I loved the scene with him and Gordon at the end. Standing silently while Gordon walks his way through the puzzle. "This is how you did it. Except you couldn't have done it that way. But you would have. Except you didn't have a motive. Unless you had another motive...." Classic Noir scene.

Ivy was kind of uninteresting. If she wasn't named Ivy, I wouldn't have really noticed her.

Cobblepot and Nygma were over-characterized, not in a bad way. The show would from time to time remind us that this is a comic book show, not a procedural.

Pennyworth was spot on. He may become my favourite character if we return to Wayne mansion regularly. Which brings up the question, will we? Are Bruce and Alfred going to be series regulars?

I was really ho-hum about Barbara.

The actor playing Bruce's father is named Grayson McCouch.

I loved the look and feel of the city; as others have mentioned, Gotham is one of the characters.

I was surprised how much I enjoyed Fish Mooney.

I'll be watching next week.

 

[DigificWriter]

Cross-posting my review of the pilot:

I have a feeling I'm going to be the only person who comments on the episode who thought it was flawless, but I'm okay with that.

I have to echo the sentiments that it's like a live-action version of Batman TAS, but I was also reminded very much of the SyFy series Caprica and the vastly underappreciated GCI film Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, and I can already say with confidence that this show is going to be my new Monday night obsession for the foreseeable future.

The entire main cast was perfect, and I can't wait to see what else happens next with each and every one of them.

Ben McKenzie makes the perfect Gordon, and honestly gives Gary Oldman a run for his money; he's exactly the kind of 'white knight' a place like Gotham needs, but he's also smart enough to know that he's going to have to play the game in order to eventually upend it, and his journey is going to be incredibly fun to watch as he tries to navigate the line between playing the game and being consumed by it.

Harvey Bullock is likeable, but compromised just enough to make him convincing as the yang to Gordon's yin, and it'll be interesting to see what happens next and how quicklythings progress to a point where he and Gordon are butting heads completely.

It's going to be real hard for anybody to top the brilliance that is Burgess Meredith's Penguin, but Robin Lord Taylor is off to a great start in making the attempt to do so, and I cannot wait to see how much more dangerous he becomes. As the old adage goes, "it's always the quiet ones you've got to watch out for", and, if tonight's episode and the preview for next week's episode are any indication, Oswald is definitely somebody you need to watch out for.

You can't really have a good superhero series without a character who's so deliciously bad and over-the-top, and without a Joker on the scene yet, Fish Mooney fits that bill perfectly. Jada Pinkett Smith was clearly having fun with the role, and I can't wait to see what else she does in terms of screwing with people, particularly once the war that Oswald mentions breaks out (because you know that it will eventually).

We didn't really see enough of the rest of the series' main characters (Captain Essen, Barbara, Bruce, Alfred, and Selina) to get a true sense of how they'll fit into the bigger narrative arc for the series, but I did like the way that Selina seemed to be following Bruce after playing 'silent witness' to the murder of his parents, and can't wait for the two of them to finally meet face-to-face. I also can't wait to see what, if anything, else happens with Ivy, Nygma, Falcone, and the other major recurring characters they introduced. I'm also really intrigued to find out what Montoya was referencing when she asked Barbara if Gordon knew her the way she (Montoya) knew her.

Some pilots start off kind of shaky, but this wasn't one of them, so kudos to Heller and Co. for that.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I'm also really intrigued to find out what Montoya was referencing when she asked Barbara if Gordon knew her the way she (Montoya) knew her..

I took it that they had been lovers, but I've been wrong before.

 

[Christopher]

That idea *did* pass through my mind, yes. But, more than likely not, The Joker wouldn't be much older than Bruce is as they're usually portrayed as -roughly- the same age.

There was an article a few weeks ago hinting that the producers would slip in background characters who might be the Joker on a regular basis, just to toy with our expectations.

Anyway, leaving that aside, I wish there'd been some explanation for why Fish was so amused by that terrible comic, who so totally mangled a rather well-known joke. Does she just have no taste? Was she attracted to the guy? What?

Oswald was great and I really do look forward to watching him grow and build an empire of his own. It does seem his odd walk was due to an injury but we also never got to really see him walk during the episode until after he was thrown in the narrows.

Actually we did see him limping badly when Gordon forced him toward the edge of the pier -- understandably, since Fish struck his legs repeatedly with a wooden club when she beat him.

The use of Gotham's cityscapes for establishing shots was really well done. I look forward to just seeing how they build Gotham as a character.

I love it that they're actually filming in New York City. It gives it a texture that another city just couldn't capture.

And the guy doing Gordon did a really good job.

Ben McKenzie. Who, interestingly, has played Batman -- in the animated DVD adaptation of Batman: Year One, which this show owes more than a little to (including the characters of Carmine Falcone and Sarah Essen -- and arguably Barbara Kean, though she was technically created earlier as an alternate-universe character).

Barbara I'm not really sure on yet. It somehow felt sort of "odd" to see Gordon, a work-stiff cop in a terrible, grungy, city in such an elite apartment. I get Barbara is from money and it was her place but I'd think it'd fit the tone more if we saw Gordon in much more "average" apartment bordering on a tenement.

I agree, but she did indicate that he doesn't live there full-time since they're not yet married. I take that to mean he has his own place.

I find it odd that MCU's/Gotham PD's holding cell is... in their lobby?!

Squad room, rather. I wonder if that's a "70s" thing. Barney Miller had a holding cell in the squad room, though that was probably because of the limitations of a sitcom taped on stage before a live audience.

And, well, to be fair Gordon and Bullock didn't *strictly* kill an innocent man. The guy *did* flee from a questioning and attacked a police officer so while he may have been innocent from the Wayne's murder his death was pretty much of his own actions.

Still, they wouldn't have been there in the first place if they hadn't been tipped off by Fish.

I'm also really intrigued to find out what Montoya was referencing when she asked Barbara if Gordon knew her the way she (Montoya) knew her.

Probably they were lovers. Montoya is lesbian in the comics. Although that's not the scandal it once would've been, so I'm not sure that's enough reason for it to be a deep dark secret between them.


By the way, the funniest moment was when Falcone spared Gordon and Bullock because "there are rules," and Bullock goes "Yes! There are rules!" Suddenly he likes rules, now that they're working in his favor. I was still laughing well into the break.

 

[DigificWriter]

I took it that they had been lovers

As did many other people. However, based on the way that scene played out, I honestly feel there's much more to that story, and am interested in seeing if we find out what that 'more' is.

 

[Trekker4747]

Actually we did see him limping badly when Gordon forced him toward the edge of the pier -- understandably, since Fish struck his legs repeatedly with a wooden club when she beat him.

Yeah, that's what I meant, we didn't see him walking oddly until after we saw him get beat-up. Either his odd walk was from that (but TV logic tells us that injuries rarely last) or it's how he normally walks due to some other cause.

Still, they wouldn't have been there in the first place if they hadn't been tipped off by Fish.

While true, the decision to flee and attack police officers was still his. Had he not ran, yeah, he likely still would have gotten framed and everything and Gordon still would likely see it as his duty to find the real killer/those responsible. But the death is all on him. He's the one who ran and attacked a police officer which is what really led to his death.

By the way, the funniest moment was when Falcone spared Gordon and Bullock because "there are rules," and Bullock goes "Yes! There are rules!" Suddenly he likes rules, now that they're working in his favor. I was still laughing well into the break.

That's our Bullock!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rules was an excuse.

Fish was making a powerplay by braking the rules.

Fish had to be scolded of without a war starting.

Fish was put in her place, reminded who was boss, and everything in the world is good again, without having train up someone else to do Miss Mooney's job going through all that teething again.

If she was killing cops with his permission, he would look weak, and that would invite opposition.

So yes it was that there are rules, but it's also about who is allowed to break them and what the consequences are.

...

The actor is 13, how old is Bruce?

He should have a legal guardian.

(We had this conversation for pages and pages a few years ago.)

You're eventually going to figure out, yes I'm talking to you, that Alfred is now Bruce's guardian and probably adopted father once the paper work goes through... but Alfred is never going to stop being the butler or acting like the help, because he's just that fricking British.

Though in the comics there was a bit after Darkseid killed him in Final CRisis(?) where Alfred breaks down sobbing, and he says something like "My son is dead, don't you understand that my son is dead?"

I'm very interested to see here in Gotham which distant cousins try to show up and take the Wayne f... At least one of his grand parents should be alive?

Aunt Harriet?

 

[TheSeeker]

That idea *did* pass through my mind, yes. But, more than likely not, The Joker wouldn't be much older than Bruce is as they're usually portrayed as -roughly- the same age.

There was an article a few weeks ago hinting that the producers would slip in background characters who might be the Joker on a regular basis, just to toy with our expectations.

Anyway, leaving that aside, I wish there'd been some explanation for why Fish was so amused by that terrible comic, who so totally mangled a rather well-known joke. Does she just have no taste? Was she attracted to the guy? What?

I think the lame stand-up comic lends credence to the rumours that they would be slipping in characters who could be the Joker. I'm not up to speed on the most recent Joker stories but "The Killing Joke" by Alan Moore had the Joker start off as a failed stand-up comic.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, that's what I meant, we didn't see him walking oddly until after we saw him get beat-up. Either his odd walk was from that (but TV logic tells us that injuries rarely last) or it's how he normally walks due to some other cause.

It was clear that Fish beat his legs quite badly, probably breaking something. Only a short time passed between that beating and the scene on the pier, because the beating occurred at the same time that Butch was stringing up Bullock alongside Gordon. So he was unquestionably limping from those freshly inflicted injuries. He couldn't not be.

Still, they wouldn't have been there in the first place if they hadn't been tipped off by Fish.

While true, the decision to flee and attack police officers was still his. Had he not ran, yeah, he likely still would have gotten framed and everything and Gordon still would likely see it as his duty to find the real killer/those responsible. But the death is all on him. He's the one who ran and attacked a police officer which is what really led to his death.

Yeah, but the point is that if Bullock hadn't helped Fish frame Pepper, he never would've been in that situation in the first place. Yes, Pepper made the decision to shoot, but Bullock knew all along that he was innocent.

In fact, legally speaking, Bullock is probably guilty of felony murder. The actual shooting was in defense of Gordon, but Pepper died as a consequence of a string of events started by Bullock's felony of framing Pepper for a crime. And if someone dies as a result of a felony you commit, even indirectly, that makes you culpable for murder. For instance, there was a real-world case where a police car pursuing a suspect hit and killed a pedestrian, and the suspect was charged with the pedestrian's murder, because it was his flight from the police that indirectly led to the death. If he hadn't committed that crime, the person wouldn't have died, so he was legally responsible.

Not to mention that he probably killed Pepper as much to keep Pepper from talking as to save Gordon.

 

[Agent Richard07]

It just hit me that Ben McKenzie was the kid from The OC.

How did Gordon's dad die? I forgot what was said and tried to think back when Jim was talking with Falcone.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Drunk driver. Jim was in the car beside him.

 

[JD]

I enjoyed it. It wasn't anything amazing, but it was entertaining enough that I'll be sticking around for the foreseeable future. I really liked the cast, and the slightly OTT way the whole thing was done.
I thought the whole cast was great. Like a lot of other people, I do think that Robin Lord Taylor's Cobblepot was the standout. I could definitely see him being the breakout character/actor on the show. As for the Penguin name, wasn't Fish calling him her Penguin before she beat him?
While I didn't mind the Nygma intro, he's their forensics guy so they worked him in in a way that made sense.
I'm curious where they are going to go with Selina seeing the Wayne's murders, and her apparent interest in Bruce. I'm curious to see if they are going to set up some kind of a relationship there.
The only intro I really had a issue with was Ivy. She just seemed kind of random and unnecessary at this point. I'm not going to rule out them doing something interesting with her in the future, but right now, after the pilot I'm not seeing it.

 

[Aragorn]

The only intro I really had a issue with was Ivy. She just seemed kind of random and unnecessary at this point. I'm not going to rule out them doing something interesting with her in the future, but right now, after the pilot I'm not seeing it.

Is she still named Ivy Pepper instead of Pamela Eisley?