Watched the first episode just before. Interesting.
Gotham - Season 1
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
Toast. Dry, white toast.
I thought the first episode was okay. It had the usual pilot problems -- introduce a lot of characters and conflicts, leaving the story a little underbaked. Performances were good.
But I expected more from it. I wanted Homicide: Life on Gotham City's Streets or The Wire: Gotham City, and the police procedural elements received short shrift. There wasn't enough investigating for me. There was a little too much Batman fan service.
I'll probably keep watching.
But I expected more from it. I wanted Homicide: Life on Gotham City's Streets or The Wire: Gotham City, and the police procedural elements received short shrift. There wasn't enough investigating for me. There was a little too much Batman fan service.
I'll probably keep watching.
Exactly. They'd already established that he was a sadistic psychopath who enjoyed beating that other guy in the alley way too much. Even Fish's other goons were a little creeped out by his bloodthirsty glee in that scene.
He's not the kinda guy who's going to turn over a new leaf just because one of the good guys spared him. He's the Penguin, not Jean Valjean.
Eh, I'm still going to argue the idea of "TV healing." We'll see how it plays out and while you may certainly be correct, I don't think his beating is a proper evidence. It happens all of the time in TV and movies where people receive severe beatings and injuries and come out of it okay after they crouch behind a barrel for a while and let their health-bar refill.
The show is being intentionally ambiguous about the specific year. We see modern technology but the cops are driving around in 30-year-old cars. And, yes, we saw a cell-phone. Gordon is called on it by Bullock before they go meet Fish. It looked to be a simple flip-phone and not a more modern-looking iPhone or other smart phone, but it wasn't a blocky awkward looking flip-phone either as it was slim and fairly modern looking. Probably actually was a present-day flip-phone.
I'm thinking it's almost an homage to the Burton movies and the first Batman: The Animated Series, where there was a mix of modern and retro technology. The car Gordon and Bullock drive around was straight out of the early 80s. As for the flip phones, well, most of fellow staff members still have flip phones for work. Only the higher admin (and me, the PR guy) have smart phones. Granted though, most of the cops I know have smart phones.
Overall, I liked it.. It's got the skeleton of a standard police procedural, but the atmosphere of a darker, supernatural (not the show) type of series... My question is this: Do other DC superheroes exist in this universe? Will we hear casual references to Superman or Wonder Woman?
Probably not. This is a Nolanesque, grounded universe where there won't be anything science-fictional or fantastic. And Bruce Wayne is only 13 years old or so -- which means that if Clark Kent did exist in this universe, he'd probably still be a kid in Smallville.
It'll probably be like the first season of Arrow, in that we might hear mentions of familiar names or institutions from the DC universe, but stripped of any SF/fantasy aspects.
I could see mentions of other DC places and names, like Metropolis, Smallville, etc. I could even see mention of LexCorp but I doubt we'll see much as far as cameos of other DC heroes or villains.
I thought it was excellent. Really grabbed my attention with the superb acting and the noir "neither present nor past" look of it, a juxtaposition which allows for real world procedural elements as well as more over the top melodrama fit for a comic book universe.
This series isn't for any obsessive, inevitably hypercritical fans of the comics. It's for the casual fan of the Batman mythos. I'm not at all surprised that the wives of our regular forum members loved it. Engaging characters are the key: Young Bruce is a stand out, as are Fish, Oswald, and the surprising Ben McKenzie who brings a believable nobility to Jim Gordon. I never had any interest in the commissioner's character until now. The only weak link was Barbara. The actress sucked.
This series isn't for any obsessive, inevitably hypercritical fans of the comics. It's for the casual fan of the Batman mythos. I'm not at all surprised that the wives of our regular forum members loved it. Engaging characters are the key: Young Bruce is a stand out, as are Fish, Oswald, and the surprising Ben McKenzie who brings a believable nobility to Jim Gordon. I never had any interest in the commissioner's character until now. The only weak link was Barbara. The actress sucked.
Last edited:
I thought, for a pilot episode, it was pretty solid. It seemed a lot tighter and not as over-the-top as the script I read (although it still had its cheesy moments).
Ben McKenzie and Donal Logue were both pretty fantastic as Jim Gordon and Harvey Bullock. I think their dynamic and chemistry was my favorite part of the episode. McKenzie has the right amount of intensity and Logue has the right amount of "lackadaisical" ineptitude. I am assuming Bullock's character arc will deal with his eventual redemption, but we'll see.
It was nice to see a Gotham City that had some atmosphere again. The city felt like an actual character, which was nice. I loved the mix of real city and noir-like elements, both in the architecture of the buildings and the way the dialogue was written. At times, the show felt like a live-action version of Batman: The Animated Series, which is only a good thing. Although the musical score left a lot to be desired.
It was also fairly brutal when it needed to be. For example, the Wayne's murder was handled with far more brutality than I've seen in previous versions. I don't think I've seen bloodshed in any previous incarnation of the Wayne's murder. David Mazouz was also excellent as young Bruce Wayne. When he screamed, it almost sent a chill down my spine. As others have said, this young man can act. I will be very curious to see how his Bruce Wayne evolves over the course of the show.
In a lot of ways, it actually improved upon Nolan's Batman. As I mentioned before, I prefer this atmospheric Gotham City to Nolan's overly banal city-like interpretation. John Doman as Carmine Falcone was also one of my favorite parts of the episode. I never understood the pronunciation of "Falcone" in Batman Begins, but that's just me. Here it seems like Falcone will have his Italian-American roots, which he didn't seem to have in Begins. I also enjoy how the mob factions and the corruption in the Gotham City police department were handled. It truly felt like Gotham as a whole was corrupt and to be perfectly honest I never got that sense from any of Nolan's Batman movies. Yes, I understood there was corruption, but it never felt widespread or interwoven like it does here. Then again, those were Batman movies, and this is a cop procedural - so it makes sense this show would feature a better representation of corruption in the ranks than Nolan's movies.
It's still a little rough around the edges - the references to Batman's Rogue Gallery were a little on the nose - but it shows promise. I am hoping not every episode will deal with introducing almost every pivotal member of the Rogue's Gallery. Some of the introductions were a bit cringe-worthy ("If I want riddles, I'll read the funny pages") but now that we have those introductions out of the way, hopefully it'll be a bit more seamless from here.
I do love, however, that the show will probably be just as much a battle for Gotham's soul as it will be for Gordon's soul. To be honest, an "honest" cop like Gordon will have his character tested time and time again being in a city like Gotham. I liked how the pilot addressed that and judging by the preview for next week's episode it seems it'll be a reoccurring theme of the show.
I'll be tuning in next week, but that was probably a given.
Ben McKenzie and Donal Logue were both pretty fantastic as Jim Gordon and Harvey Bullock. I think their dynamic and chemistry was my favorite part of the episode. McKenzie has the right amount of intensity and Logue has the right amount of "lackadaisical" ineptitude. I am assuming Bullock's character arc will deal with his eventual redemption, but we'll see.
It was nice to see a Gotham City that had some atmosphere again. The city felt like an actual character, which was nice. I loved the mix of real city and noir-like elements, both in the architecture of the buildings and the way the dialogue was written. At times, the show felt like a live-action version of Batman: The Animated Series, which is only a good thing. Although the musical score left a lot to be desired.
It was also fairly brutal when it needed to be. For example, the Wayne's murder was handled with far more brutality than I've seen in previous versions. I don't think I've seen bloodshed in any previous incarnation of the Wayne's murder. David Mazouz was also excellent as young Bruce Wayne. When he screamed, it almost sent a chill down my spine. As others have said, this young man can act. I will be very curious to see how his Bruce Wayne evolves over the course of the show.
In a lot of ways, it actually improved upon Nolan's Batman. As I mentioned before, I prefer this atmospheric Gotham City to Nolan's overly banal city-like interpretation. John Doman as Carmine Falcone was also one of my favorite parts of the episode. I never understood the pronunciation of "Falcone" in Batman Begins, but that's just me. Here it seems like Falcone will have his Italian-American roots, which he didn't seem to have in Begins. I also enjoy how the mob factions and the corruption in the Gotham City police department were handled. It truly felt like Gotham as a whole was corrupt and to be perfectly honest I never got that sense from any of Nolan's Batman movies. Yes, I understood there was corruption, but it never felt widespread or interwoven like it does here. Then again, those were Batman movies, and this is a cop procedural - so it makes sense this show would feature a better representation of corruption in the ranks than Nolan's movies.
It's still a little rough around the edges - the references to Batman's Rogue Gallery were a little on the nose - but it shows promise. I am hoping not every episode will deal with introducing almost every pivotal member of the Rogue's Gallery. Some of the introductions were a bit cringe-worthy ("If I want riddles, I'll read the funny pages") but now that we have those introductions out of the way, hopefully it'll be a bit more seamless from here.
I do love, however, that the show will probably be just as much a battle for Gotham's soul as it will be for Gordon's soul. To be honest, an "honest" cop like Gordon will have his character tested time and time again being in a city like Gotham. I liked how the pilot addressed that and judging by the preview for next week's episode it seems it'll be a reoccurring theme of the show.
I'll be tuning in next week, but that was probably a given.
She just wanted to get ahead.
Penguin points taken--complexity of characters is not something to look for here, I guess.
Which is true of every mass-media adaptation of any franchise, though the obsessive fans never seem to figure that out.
He's always been a favorite of mine. I've always been drawn to the civilian supporting cast in superhero stories (except Steve Trevor -- he's just boring). To me, Gordon and Alfred are as important to the story as Robin or Batgirl or the Joker. Batman couldn't do his job without Gordon's support, any more than Gordon could do his without Batman's.
I have mixed feelings about the pilot. I thought Ben McKenzie and Robin Lord Taylor were great. Donal Logue and David Mazouz were OK, but Sean Pertwee's Alfred didn't quite work for me. The little that I've seen from him, that is. He lacked subtlety and finesse one would expect from a butler (or a manservant).
I was pleasantly surprised to see Bruce Wayne chastise Alfred at the end, putting him in his place. That was a nice touch, reminiscent of something I once read in one of the comics - Alfred may practically be family, but at the end of the day, he WORKS for Bruce and there are boundaries that are never crossed.
Plot was intriguing enough. I liked the photography for the most part (HATED the gopro bits, as short as the were). Editing felt sloppy, and the music at time downright sucked.
Also, that title card is terrible, tacky and cheesy. They have all the time in the world to replace it with something more tasteful. I hope it's sooner, rather than later.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Bruce Wayne chastise Alfred at the end, putting him in his place. That was a nice touch, reminiscent of something I once read in one of the comics - Alfred may practically be family, but at the end of the day, he WORKS for Bruce and there are boundaries that are never crossed.
Plot was intriguing enough. I liked the photography for the most part (HATED the gopro bits, as short as the were). Editing felt sloppy, and the music at time downright sucked.
Also, that title card is terrible, tacky and cheesy. They have all the time in the world to replace it with something more tasteful. I hope it's sooner, rather than later.
I respect your point about Alfred and Gordon. To further clarify, as someone who read comics so seldom, my main exposure to Commissioner Gordon was reruns of the cheesy '60s series. Even there, Alfred got much better treatment. He was, at the very least, cool. Gordon was reduced to incompetent fool. Needless to say, Ben McKenzie's Gordon is a tad more compelling.
Gotham's first episode was ok. I wasn't a fan of Mooney, she seems really generic, and Selina Kyle had absolutely no point. I also think that the episode could have toned down the corruption and it would have been a bit better. Bruce's child actor was ok, although Alfred was way too rough. He's supposed to be a butler, regardless of whether this version has other skills or not he was not very Alfred like in his few scenes. Bullock is also really nothing like the version I'm familiar with, but I guess they thought the name sounded good. Montoya and her partner were a bit annoying, but hopefully they'll get less annoying as the show goes on. I do really hope that Montoya's secret with Gordon's girlfriend isn't that they were romantically involved, I'm a fan of Montoya in the comics but a Barbara/Montoya thing which just be stupid.
The story wasn't anything special (although it was hilarious that the Wayne's were coming from a musical, which seems to take away a bit from the seriousness of the event) but it wasn't bad. Overall, this was decent enough that I'll watch it for awhile, but hopefully it gets better at telling a decent story as it goes.
The story wasn't anything special (although it was hilarious that the Wayne's were coming from a musical, which seems to take away a bit from the seriousness of the event) but it wasn't bad. Overall, this was decent enough that I'll watch it for awhile, but hopefully it gets better at telling a decent story as it goes.
Yeah, it didn't seem to fit the tone and style of the show.
There was an episode of 60s Batman were Batman was "out of the country", and I actually thought that Gordon and O'Harah were going to have to save the day themselves. I sat there praying that Batman would just stay fucked off... But the caped crusader finally did show at the 10 minute mark, and I was so disappointed. They probably had to film the episode around some minor unavailability of Adam West.
Also, I was wondering how often Aunt Harriet and Alfred used to accidentally walk into each others bedrooms at night?
Also, I was wondering how often Aunt Harriet and Alfred used to accidentally walk into each others bedrooms at night?
Yeah I agree Bullock was much more overtly corrupt and twisted than I was expecting (even going as far as ordering Gordon to murder someone on a pier in broad daylight!). Which was a perfect demonstration of just how over the top and unsubtle the writing was as a whole on this show.
It would have been much more interesting if we saw Bullock at least struggling a bit with the orders he had to carry out. Or deciding to spare Gordon and do the killing himself.
I mean yeah I get that the Gotham PD is supposed to be corrupt, but I wouldn't expect the police or detectives to be so incredibly obvious and up front about it.
We did. He said outright that his heart wouldn't be in it if he had to try to kill Gordon, and just warning him at all shows that he was conflicted.
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
I'm thinking they're going for an Animated Series take on Bullock. Someone Gordon can trust, but a far cry from an honest cop.
Similar threads
