Ya know it's just proof of the old saw that sci fi fans are all sheltered geeks who can't handle anything sexy--like a lot sci fi stories in the '50s. What a bunch of Puritans! I don't see any of you complaining about all the threads about boobs and hot actresses all over these forums. There's so much demeaning talk about women going on 'round here, it's not even funny. That crap is a hell of lot more childish than the decon scene. The decon scene was fun and sexy and I enjoyed looking over Trinneer's bod, and Blalock was mightly fine, too. The characters weren't doing anything remotely sexual or degrading--they were discussing professional stuff. It didn't bother me in the slightest.
Gonna bust my ENT cherry soon.
- Thread starter Rabittooth
- Start date
^ Insulting my intelligence is about: "Ooo, look sexy!" Instead of letting it happen through story lines with interesting characters. I don't mind naked or near-naked bodies ... I just want it to be interesting.
The Broken Bow decon scene was mind-numbingly dumb. I felt embarrassed for Trinneer (in more ways than one) and Blalock.
Boy, you don't know me. I love Torchwood -- which actually manages to be sexy and mostly smart. I like Robert Heinlein. And much of science fiction deals with sex in interesting ways.
The Broken Bow decon scene was mind-numbingly dumb. I felt embarrassed for Trinneer (in more ways than one) and Blalock.
I just choose not to participate. It's pretty much the same idea off turning the television.
No one pays the guys or gals on this BBS who like to write about hot boddage for their ideas.
Oh you should have seen the threads about naked shower scenes and "Chest(s) that got away", a few years ago. Why, I even think some who participated, and maybe even started some of those threads are still with us.
So I can assume that you two disliked TOS? That you were insulted and disgusted by the short skirts of female crew uniforms that showed the gal's panties at times? Can I assume that after watching Miri and seeing Rand say to Kirk, "I always wanted you to notice my legs," you were just as insulted as you were by the decon scene? Trek had to work for years to get your respect back?
I'm intelligent, I've got a few degrees, and I wasn't insulted by the decon scene. To each his or her own, I suppose--I just can't understand how much attention that one little, bitty scene got in the grand scheme of things. Enjoy looking at some nice bods and get on with life. When I write about how much I love Enterprise, I talk about the characters, ships, situations, etc.--never the decon scene. But the decon scene comes up a lot when people talk about how much they hated Enterprise. What's that mean, I wonder? Who is it exactly who's paying way too much attention to the skin scene?
Robert Heinlein and sex? That's just the kind of early sci fi crap take on sex that I'm talking about!
I'm intelligent, I've got a few degrees, and I wasn't insulted by the decon scene. To each his or her own, I suppose--I just can't understand how much attention that one little, bitty scene got in the grand scheme of things. Enjoy looking at some nice bods and get on with life. When I write about how much I love Enterprise, I talk about the characters, ships, situations, etc.--never the decon scene. But the decon scene comes up a lot when people talk about how much they hated Enterprise. What's that mean, I wonder? Who is it exactly who's paying way too much attention to the skin scene?
Robert Heinlein and sex? That's just the kind of early sci fi crap take on sex that I'm talking about!
And yet you missed the point of my post. There are scenes in ENT that were done well. Hoshi slipping out of the overhead ductwork and getting her top caught on a screw. Trip's encounter with the princess everyone loves to hate. etc...
But, the decon chamber and massage scenes come across and a crutch. Something pushed in when the executives demand more skin to draw viewers because they are afraid that the story line is too week to hold an audience. Even the actors knew what it was. That is why you see a lot of quotes from them talking about receiving scripts and thinking "Oh no. Another decon scene." When T'Pol tells Trip to remove his shirt so she can massage his feet you know there is only one purpose for that scene and it has nothing to do with the story line. That is why people are insulted. It is because the people in charge assume we will not watch UNLESS we see some skin and we will be so infatuated that we will not notice that the scene is so badly written.
Last edited:
Personally it didn't insult me. I enjoyed watching the episodes and was entertained by the majority of Enterprise's stories. I liked most of the character, Trip, T'Pol and Phlox, being my favourites and liked watching how they progressed and developed.
Compared to some, I thought the 'sex' scenes in Enterprise was Disney - very mild in comparison.
It insulted my intelligence when Archer landed in T'Pol's boobs or when he made fraudulent slips. That I thought was forced and completely irrelevant & added no value to the story. At least with the Decon scene or the massage scenes, there was a story that went with it to explain why it needed.
Compared to some, I thought the 'sex' scenes in Enterprise was Disney - very mild in comparison.
It insulted my intelligence when Archer landed in T'Pol's boobs or when he made fraudulent slips. That I thought was forced and completely irrelevant & added no value to the story. At least with the Decon scene or the massage scenes, there was a story that went with it to explain why it needed.
I was pretty shocked by dialog in one cut scene. At least they had sence enough to cut it.
Paraphrasing here ...
Archer to Trip: "When was the last time you were with a woman?"
Trip: "What?"
Archer: "Never mind." Then moves on to another topic.
That had to be a weird scene for the actors. At least it was cut.
Again, I'm not insulted by skin. I am insulted by the "skin just for the sake of skin because that is more important to our viewers than the story" implementation.
Paraphrasing here ...
Archer to Trip: "When was the last time you were with a woman?"
Trip: "What?"
Archer: "Never mind." Then moves on to another topic.
That had to be a weird scene for the actors. At least it was cut.
Again, I'm not insulted by skin. I am insulted by the "skin just for the sake of skin because that is more important to our viewers than the story" implementation.
I like you. That's exactly right. When "sex" wasn't part of the storyline, but shoved at us ... it felt shoved at us.
KayArr, I loved TOS! So, you assume incorrectly. I've been watching that since I was a kid ... which means about 30+ years now.
Women in the 60s and 70s days wore short skirts -- it was fashionable. It's like why Trip and Archer have sideburns in Ent. Costume designers are influenced by what's popular in the day they made the costume or cut the hair. (Although I'm not sure how the catsuit made it into Voy or Ent except to be "hot.)
Now I thought in "Miri" when Janice Rand said, "Look at my legs, Captain!" (because they were getting black things like the other 'grumps'), it was a tad silly ... and yet part of the storyline. She didn't mean it sexually. And yet ... the great thing about TOS was even the relationship they built between Kirk and Rand (before the actress left the show) was that it was never overt (except when "bad" Kirk assaulted her). Otherwise whatever happened between them was part of the story.
The whole story was about the captain being human, so to me it was part of the storyline. The guy was having one majorly bad day.
^ Insulting my intelligence is about: "Ooo, look sexy!" Instead of letting it happen through story lines with interesting characters. I don't mind naked or near-naked bodies ... I just want it to be interesting.
Boy, you don't know me. I love Torchwood -- which actually manages to be sexy and mostly smart. I like Robert Heinlein. And much of science fiction deals with sex in interesting ways.
The Broken Bow decon scene was mind-numbingly dumb. I felt embarrassed for Trinneer (in more ways than one) and Blalock.
I just choose not to participate. It's pretty much the same idea off turning the television.
No one pays the guys or gals on this BBS who like to write about hot boddage for their ideas.
Boy, you must hate TOS then. I mean look at the first episode post pilots; (The Corbomite Manuever - which is (imo) the best Star Trek episode period as it really captures what Star Trek is about in its 52 minutes) I mean WHY would they shoot a Starship Captain (Kirk) leaving Sick Bay sweaty and shirtless (with his tunic drapped over his neck) after a physical and follow him riding the turbolift to his quarters? Did that REALLY add to the story? No. It was there to appeal to female viewers in the audience just as the mini-skirt uniforms and scantaly clad female aliens and androids in the first season of TOS were there to appeal to the male viewers.
Somehow, TNG fans got the impression that sex and overt sexual attraction was somehow dead in the 24th centiury and became nearly puritanical as GR seemed to get more senile in his old age.
My point? Actaul 'Star Trek' of the 1960ies ROUTINELY 'pandered' to the 'baser' instincts of both male and female viewers because at the time GR tried to do all he could to boost Network viewership. The fact that ENT tried (rather tamely) to do something similar was no big deal.
My intelligence was insulted by the pilot of Grey's Anatomy when a med student and her mentor to be have a one-night stand the night before meeting. Never watched it again. I was insulted by the pilot of the West Wing when a woman from the Pres's office is shown on an exercise machine talking to a guy, saying how happy she is singe while obviously flirting, only to fall on her face when the White Hall house calls--hardy har har. Never watched it again. The decon scene on Enterprise? Foot rubbing? Not so much--didn't bother me a bit.
A Night in Sickbay, on the other hand, was genuinely insulting.
A Night in Sickbay, on the other hand, was genuinely insulting.
I thought the one night stand was a great setup for the hospital scene the next day.
To bad you did not like it. Again, it set up another scene wonderfully.
Then maybe you can explain to me why he had to take off his shirt to have his feet massaged, and what scene it set up later in the show. Or is it that you prefer scenes that don't tie into the show in any other way?
Yes, I know you were being sarcastic but you picked two very bad examples for your case though they were good examples for mine. Those scenes in the first two shows tied in very well with the story. Now if Archer had at some point ask T'Pol why she wanted Trip to remove his shirt while she massaged his feet and used the encounter to convince her that she subconciously lust after Trip then it be a nice setup for future Trip/T'Pol relations.
Sorry, but those scenes in Grey's Anatomy and The West Wing were absolutely insulting and degrading to me as a professional woman with a couple of college degrees. The skin scenes in Enterprise didn't strike me that way. Time to agree to disagree, eh?
On Grey's Anatomy, why is the mentor guy Patrick Dempsey? Why not a thick-looking guy with glasses? I think we know why. I seem to remember that the woman that they made fun of at the start of The West Wing was a little homely. Why do you think that was? I think we know why. Sexy looking young people sell on every single show on television. Folks who look like you and me are there for comic relief, they aren't the heroes. I don't see any difference in what the Enterprise folks did--except that they didn't make a professional woman look careless and stupid or make fun of an older woman with a career.
I haven't meant anything I've posted to be sarcastic--I meant all of it. The internet just really isn't the place for these kind of discussions--no body language, no facial expressions. Some were insulted by the decon scene, others weren't--ah well, that's life. My point is, people who aren't adolescent males enjoyed the decon scene, so there you have it.
On Grey's Anatomy, why is the mentor guy Patrick Dempsey? Why not a thick-looking guy with glasses? I think we know why. I seem to remember that the woman that they made fun of at the start of The West Wing was a little homely. Why do you think that was? I think we know why. Sexy looking young people sell on every single show on television. Folks who look like you and me are there for comic relief, they aren't the heroes. I don't see any difference in what the Enterprise folks did--except that they didn't make a professional woman look careless and stupid or make fun of an older woman with a career.
I haven't meant anything I've posted to be sarcastic--I meant all of it. The internet just really isn't the place for these kind of discussions--no body language, no facial expressions. Some were insulted by the decon scene, others weren't--ah well, that's life. My point is, people who aren't adolescent males enjoyed the decon scene, so there you have it.
Last edited:
Dude, you didn't read my response. I indicated I loved it.
Please stop labeling SFRabid and me. So far in this thread, we've been called "puritans" and been told what we like and don't like. To illustrate how it might feel, we haven't called you sexual deviants obsessed with boobies, "enjoying only mindless Voyager." (I have no idea if you like Voyager or not and assume you aren't a sexual deviant who only likes boobies.) I'd kinda appreciate the same courtesy of staying away from assumptions and labels.
Here's the deal again. I love TOS. LOVE! Mr. Spock is my favorite character of all time. I think sex in stories is fine, too. I think it's good when it relates to the story. Why I hate the decon scene in Broken Bow, to recap, doesn't further or pertain to the storyline and only there to go "oooh, sexy." And not really interesting.
More over, GR loved seeing Uhura in a miniskirt. 1) It was the style of the time. 2) He is a red-blood American male, and one who really loved the ladies. (A lot. So much so it's been written about.) 3) Society was different then; women had a limited role in the working world (why NBC didn't want a female first officer - Number One - we've come a long way baby). I'm sure his hormones quieted down -- it's pretty normal in older age. But I never got the feeling Picard was a sexless captain. And I don't mind, again as above, Captain Archer's sexuality under a microscope as they look at his "human-ness." I agree with SFRabid that the Monty-Pythonesque question he asked, "You ever done it ... with a lady?" sounded silly. But I think his Freudian slips and his overall issues are interesting ... maybe because a captain has never been under the microscope like this.
KayArr, no one said you were an kid or a boy. You like it. Good for you. Enjoy it.
Last edited:
You know, this thread is heading in a familiar direction. We've gone off point to bickering about who's right or wrong in their opinion of the show. This does not contribute to the discussion, so please, everyone, take a step back and a deep breath and let it go. To paraphrase Joan Cusack in Working Girl, I want happy humans here!
O.K., just one more comment, and I'm done. I hope that you will allow it since it doesn't actually repeat anything that I've said before.
It's completely nonsensical for someone in Archer's position to make such a slip as talking in terms of breasts with T'pol. I've never in my life met a professional man in this more enlightened (post-Gene Rodenberry) age who would do such a thing, and Archer should be miles ahead of where we are now. To me, that line was pandering to adolescent males to a much greater degree than anything else on the show.
I agree that I was disrespectful above when I called people Puritans. If someone called me a name, I would consider myself provoked, and I'd rally to defend myself. For that, I apologize.
So much for Rabittooth's request to keep spoilers out of this thread.
Yo, RT! Get outta here now and watch the show in peace while you still have a chance!
Yo, RT! Get outta here now and watch the show in peace while you still have a chance!
Being from the US, I am descended from Puritans and was raised Methodist, so I suppose to a small degree it's true. We all hate something and love something and bully for all of us; we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm sorry if you were offended as well.
Rabbittooth, this is the fun you have to look forward to! People who care passionately about their Star Trek and science fiction.
Oh dang, sorry.
We all hate something and love something and bully for all of us; we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm sorry if you were offended as well.Rabbittooth, this is the fun you have to look forward to! People who care passionately about their Star Trek and science fiction.
Oh dang, sorry.
I'm actually skimming the larger posts in the argument and skipping when there seems to be spoilers. I haven't been spoiled yet in this thread other than the fact that my little wish for smooth head Klingons might show up in the last season...which, although is a mild spoiler, is still very cool!Kathy and I are still in Season 1 and really having a blast. I almost spit up when Reed was drunk in Shuttle pod One and and started talking a bout T'pol's bum.
Yeah...my wife sighs and rolls her eyes when there's "no-reason nudity", but I'm certainly ok with it. It's obviously just an excuse to show a little skin, but it's still done pretty well. Is Jeff Combs gonna keep coming back as that Andorian character? Kathy loved Weyoun and we're both really happy to see him again. (Loving the moving antennae too!).
The show is pretty awesome alright. We're having fun.
-Rabittooth
Ah, good man. Skimming over posts in argument threads is a handy skill around here. You catch on quickly.
Jeff Combs lovers will be happy campers.
And yes, the antennae rock, don't they?Your enthusiasm reminds me of when I first saw the series--I didn't have a chance to watch Enterprise until the summer before Season 4 aired, so I binged on Seasons 1-3 during a glorious few weeks, while I was still practically spoiler-free. I was in heaven.The show is pretty awesome alright. We're having fun.
-Rabittooth
Keep checking in with us!
