I consider "Masks" to be a very underrated episode as well. But "Sub Rosa" is just... urghhh. If I want to watch a Beverly episode, I'll watch "Remember Me".
Gizmodo: 30 Years on, TNG's Ghost Sex Episode Remains as Unhinged and Awful as Ever
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As an addendum... Sub Rosa is at least memorable. I've watched it a few times since it came out. It took me about 30 years to get around to re-watching "Interface", which really only has the distinction of ensuring that all seven main characters (nine if you include Wes and Tasha) had lost at least one parent.
Season 7, not season 1, was the bad season. And yes, Masks is god awful and worse by a mile.
I refuse to rewatch Sub Rosa.
Definitely disagree..I can at least rewstch much of Season 7. Season 1 makes me disinterested in the characters.
I feel EXACTLY the opposite.... weird. Just out of curiosity, what season did you first start watching the show, and what age?
I may prefer season 1 and 2 due to nostalgia, seeing as how I was like 7 when I watched TNG during its original run. When I think back on my earliest memories of first seeing this show, I always think of episodes like 100010101 or The Battle or Peak Performance.
I may prefer season 1 and 2 due to nostalgia, seeing as how I was like 7 when I watched TNG during its original run. When I think back on my earliest memories of first seeing this show, I always think of episodes like 100010101 or The Battle or Peak Performance.
Season 1, and I was about 7 or 8.
See, I saw those but the characters landed so flat for me.
"Peak Performance" is one of the best episodes of TNG, period. It gave everyone something to do, and well.
And Picard's conversation with Data in his quarters was excellent, and has one if the best lines in the franchise.
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life."
"Peak Performance" was a good episode. It might have been great if they hadn't copped out with the ending by bringing in the Ferengi. Why not just have the battle sim play itself out?
I just re-watched Sub Rosa last night. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/30th-annivesary-of-1994.316022/page-2#post-14725585 (Next up, Lower Decks!)
It's bad. But I'm sure I've seen worse. (I LOVE Rascals!) The Gizmodo review nails it: Beverly doesn't really connect with this episode even though she's in almost every scene. You just feel bad for Gates.
Masks is coming up quick. I barely remember that one.
It's bad. But I'm sure I've seen worse. (I LOVE Rascals!) The Gizmodo review nails it: Beverly doesn't really connect with this episode even though she's in almost every scene. You just feel bad for Gates.
Masks is coming up quick. I barely remember that one.
I also loved The Girl Who Was Death. And I blame one of my first REALLY epic hangovers on Drambuie that I had only ever heard of because of that episode and the crazy person who suggested we do the shots in the first place. (I then watched the episode with a fellow hangover sufferer the next day.)
30 years ago I just thought the episode was average. Not good or bad, just there. It wasn't until coming to forums like this where I saw deep hatred for it. I get the hatred, but I still think it's pretty average. I thought episodes like Force of Nature were worse, considering the Warp Drive limit didn't last very long anyway.
Sub Rosa may have redeeming qualities*, but all I can ever think about is how Crusher reads her grandmother's very detailed fuck diary before going to sleep and then gets aroused having a sex dream about Grannie's lover. Classic Beverly.
It boggles my mind that none of the writers, producers, cast or director seemed to have a problem with that. Beverly actually says at one point, with a lustful smile on her face, “I fell asleep reading a particularly EROTIC chapter of my grandmother’s journal last night.”
Also, how does she get over her “bereavement” at losing her grandmother? Why, she starts having sex with her granny’s fuck buddy before her body is even cold.
Beverly, how about some BOUNDARIES.
Most people don’t like to think about their parents having sex. Much less their grandparents having sex. It’s just something you…don’t get turned on by. Unless you are Beverly Crusher.
The whole episode is so damned embarrassing. Worse than Spock’s Brain, which at least didn’t have scene after scene of a poor actress faking orgasms in an empty room.
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JANEWAY: There's a reason you took a semester of interspecies protocol at the Academy. There's also a reason why the Handbook on Personal Relationships is three centimetres thick.
Wouldn't it be a PADD?
My most hated episode is "Too Short A Season" from season 1, I've never finished that episode in over 30 years. And I have NO IDEA what the episode is about.... and I'm a season 1 fan. It puts me to sleep every time.
Ooooh, I definitely agree with the "season 7 is the bad season, not season 1" statement in here. I adore (most of) season 1. As for season 7 being bad.... yup, "Sub Rosa" is being a case in point indeed.
“Move Along Home” is another it’s so bad it’s good situation, definitely.
Bashir: “We've gone from the second shap to the third shap to the fourth shap already!”
Kira: “What is a shap?”
Bashir: “I have no idea.”
This just dawned on me, apologies if it's already been brought up:
The cast is really good in this, even if the make-up isn't and if the plot takes a while to get on with it*. The old idea of "fountain of youth... in pill form!" is a bit fantastical, but the drama induced when
Jameson pops both doses of the magical plot device, out of vanity to confront his old enemy as well as inadvertently pissing off his wife in the process (oops)
actually won me over.
The story does start out iffy, though.
* padding is great for pillows and mattresses, just not so much for storytelling unless there's enough atmosphere to carry out the scenes until the next act/reveal/etc.
TNG was finding itself for S1 so there are bound to be misfires; they already had great characters with backgrounds, solid incidental music, and great directors so it would continue in some fashion. Plus, there was limited enough competition, whose tone was arguably far worse than even TNG's worst foibles and that helped interest in TNG on top of everything else. But before I digress...
Season 7 was long after it both found itself as well as reinventing itself again for season 5! In turn, TNG just feels increasingly worn out at this point and it didn't help that DS9 got all the really good material to build on. That said, TNG/S7 has good and great episodes, and "Masks" is a return to the TNG-season 2 style of exploring actual unknowns (only not necessarily as overtly dangerous). That's definitely refreshing in among the muck and treacle.
On edit: Post consolidation, typos, and admission that I haven't drank enough coffee spiked with sugar and mothballs yet.
Mmmmm, mothballs
(Well, not really, but I had to say something even more absurdist somewhere... (by the seashore, surely.))
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I’m definitely in the camp of “for all its obvious flaws, season one is far more watchable than season seven”. The debut season has a freshness, boldness and energy about it. Season seven is incredibly…tired. It’s such a bore. It feels as though every other episode is about a character’s (invariably dull as dishwater) long lost family member. There are a couple of great episodes but so, so much boring filler. Even the writers admitted they were burned out and running on fumes. TNG peaked quite early (I’d say with “Best of Both Worlds”). Something happened around the fifth season when Ron Jones was fired and the music got incredibly bland…the writing got bland too. The writers were a bit too focused on Piller’s “character before plot” approach. Which would perhaps work well if the TNG characters weren’t generally so beige and toothless. Most the good episodes were actually the ones with high concept plots. Or a combination of that and character focus (“The Inner Light”).
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Masks is panned by many (not by me though. I love it) but to consider it worse than Sub Rosa is batshit crazy.
I agree. Masks is one of my favorite episodes. It's a great showcase for Spiner to stretch out a little and the whole idea of an alien library transforming the Enterprise into a replica of its culture is badass. It's a story idea that I can see fitting in easily with TOS.
I can't abide Move Along Home though.
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