Ghostly Encounters

[cooleddie74]

^
It took me a couple of tries but I did eventually see it. Very cool stuff. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

[sojourner]

Gizmodo/IO9 had a better version of that one. it was much easier to "see". Than the one in this video.

 

[cooleddie74]

Not one of my own stories, but one of the ghost tales that a lot of people seemingly have great difficulty explaining away as a hoax or misinterpretation of natural phenomena. The "Ghost Writer" series of events was a rage in the paranormal investigations community a number of years ago and to this day there are many people who don't know how this happened and under controlled conditions monitored by cameras, investigators as well as several skeptics.

Watch, check out other videos associated with the case and judge for yourself. An extremely clever, skilled hoax and load of bull? Something genuinely eerie and unexplainable at present? Something that exists somewhere between the "Complete B.S." and "evidence-of-the paranormal" categories?

I'd love to hear feedback on this, because the case has kind of intrigued me over the years. It's certainly one of the more interesting and unconventional paranormal stories to crop up in recent years and not some drab, boring, white bread "I saw something out of the corner of my eye" tale.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0691omc5n0[/yt]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZGfH8TJ13c&feature=related[/yt]

Bullshit and fake? Perhaps. What do you guys think?

 

[sojourner]

Lost all credibility the minute they brought in a psychic.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, the "professional psychic" angle sort of annoyed the hell out of me too. It doesn't help.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Faked. I can think of at least three ways to do it, and I've seen this one (it's been on a few TV shows) reproduced by both a magician and a photography expert, albeit in totally different ways.

And the presence of sponger Peter James is pretty much a guarantee that there's fuck all real there....

Not that it's needed, since nobody bothered to mention (in any of the shows that this case was featured on) that the two Johns were filmmakers who worked on horror movies for Roger Corman, both before and after the case. Maktowski was a cinematographer (guess what that job entails) while his friend Huckert was a screenwriter (i.e. professionally making up stories).

Take your pick as to whether it was a wind-up against that sort of show, or a sort of video audition or pitch for a project.

 

[cooleddie74]

See, this is what I'm talking about.

Really cool and creepy story or not, I like input and ideas about possible causes and origins. Lonemagpie just posted details I had been completely unaware of and which might very well help explain the entire "Ghost Writer" story.

Does the possibility of completely debunking something render it boring and not worth hearing about? Of course not. It's still one hell of a cool story even if it winds up being cleverly planned and intricately skilled bullshit to pull a fast one on the public.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

What I don't like is when I've had strongly emotional dreams and I wake up and the emotion is still there.

That can be pretty disturbing, depending on the intensity of the emotion.

When I graduated from grammar school back in 2001, I hadn't seen my first (and by the time ex) boyfriend in over a year. The break-up had been really nasty. During the graduation ceremony, the power went out for a while and we were all led outside. When the lights went back on, I thought I saw Henry (the ex) standing in the crowd.

When I told a classmate (who coincidentally was a friend of his I had been avoiding for this exact reason), she said that Henry had got sick half a year ago (lymphatic cancer), and that he was now in a coma.

Sure, I only thought I saw him because I had been thinking about him earlier (he switched schools a year before that), due to the end of an era feeling one gets at graduations....but I got seriously creeped out by the experience.

Two nights later, I dreamed of him for the first time in ages, and in the dream he said goodbye to me....next morning, that classmate of mine/ friend of his called me to tell me that he had passed on during the night.

Again, a coincidence, since I had just found out he was dying and was still trying to work up the courage to face his family at the hospital....but it was so horrible. I woke up crying, and an hour later that girl called me to give me the news.

So yeah....my "ghost encounter", if you will. There are logical reasons for what happened, but back then, it really got to me. That and the fact that he died before I could say goodbye.

 

[Mr Awe]

To be fair, I think I shared more ghost stories than anyone else in this thread, and the discussion has never gotten off topic. If you don't like the debate, don't join in, and post a ghost story instead. Clearly there are otter people who find the discussion of why we have ghost encounters interesting.

Sadly, I've never seen a ghost.

I've tried to see ghosts, but never have either. I did get an unexplained moan on multiple recording devices that we didn't hear at the time, but it wasn't enough to make me believe in the "paranormal".

Mr Awe

 

[thestrangequark]

^"Skeptics are immune to hauntings."

Doesn't the fact that you didn't hear the moan at the time of the recording serve as a fairly obvious indicator that it was a product of the recording? The same way that most "ghost photographs" showing orbs and streaks of light are obviously flash effects?

Another relavent and interesting neuro-psychological quirk of the human mind which goes a fair way to understanding why people think they see ghosts is the fact that when you are shown an image and then later asked to imagine that image, the exact same part of the brain lights up on fMRI -- not a related part, the exact same part. And people think they can perfectly distinguish reality from imagination? Bollocks!

 

[Gary7]

And people think they can perfectly distinguish reality from imagination? Bollocks!

Oh, cute. Real cute. Please don't distort what I've said.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Do you not comprehend the meaning of that evidence?

 

[Gary7]

Look, you can say whatever you want about people's ability to perceive reality from imagination or hallucinations, but your little suffix of "Bullocks" was a play on a paragraph I had posted in a response about the subject. You rephrased the meaning of what I said as well. I just don't appreciate this kind of game playing. I'd be ashamed if I did the same to you.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I once went to a "haunted" theater. Basically it was a money making ploy that the theater does in the fall to make some easy money (I think it was $20/person for a tour that lasted less than an hour).

It's fun to indulge in their stories and imagine what it would be like if they weren't such bullshitters and if some of it were true. But at the same time it was somewhat infuriating, especially the part where they pulled out the dowsing rods...

Those kinds of situations are basically people preying on others' weaknesses or desire to believe in such things. I actually furthered that a little bit myself, as I'm sure many do when they go there. Apparently my wife had gone there with her sister a few years back and was told that sometimes the smell of root beer barrels can be smelled, and this was supposed to be related to a prankster ghost who used to work the concession stand. Well, he wasn't the only prankster to ever go through there. I went there with some family, including my wife and her sister. What her sister didn't know was that I got a root beer flavored sucker a couple days prior. When we were all standing in a pitch dark basement, I put the sucker in my mouth and very carefully breathed in her general direction. She freaked out so bad. Of course, we had to tell her the truth later when she was convinced that it was a ghost. At least we had the decency to do that. The theater, however, keeps making money off of people through dishonesty. It's not so bad though, and I actually salute their business.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Oh man, that's horrible!

Look, you can say whatever you want about people's ability to perceive reality from imagination or hallucinations, but your little suffix of "Bullocks" was a play on a paragraph I had posted in a response about the subject. You rephrased the meaning of what I said as well. I just don't appreciate this kind of game playing. I'd be ashamed if I did the same to you.

You think too much of yourself. That post had nothing to do with the post you made...I'd completely forgotten you'd even used that word, and the fact that I used it too was merely coincidence -- it's not an uncommon word, after all, especially for me when talking about "ghosts." I don't even know which post you are referring to.

ETA: Oh, I remember the post now. Seriously, this was not meant as some kind of parody of your post.

 

[Mr Awe]

^"Skeptics are immune to hauntings."

Doesn't the fact that you didn't hear the moan at the time of the recording serve as a fairly obvious indicator that it was a product of the recording? The same way that most "ghost photographs" showing orbs and streaks of light are obviously flash effects?

Another relavent and interesting neuro-psychological quirk of the human mind which goes a fair way to understanding why people think they see ghosts is the fact that when you are shown an image and then later asked to imagine that image, the exact same part of the brain lights up on fMRI -- not a related part, the exact same part. And people think they can perfectly distinguish reality from imagination? Bollocks!

Well, being a skeptic certainly makes it easier to go around old buildings at night with nothing but a flashlight!

The moan was actually captured on 2 totally separate recording devices at the same exact time. The moan sounds the same on both. I'm guessing that the sound was a real, normal sound and that we just didn't notice it at the time. Maybe our minds filtered it out at the time and we were focused on something else. But, if it was just a normal sound, it's no mystery why it would be recorded on both.

I totally agree with *everything* you've said about human perception and memory. Totally jives with what I've read.

That said, boy would I just love it if an apparition just appeared and did something freaky! My current hypothesis is that what we call "paranormal" doesn't exist. But, sometimes being proven wrong (with very solid evidence) can be even more fun than being proven right. And, I say that as someone who as worked in science for a long time!

Mr Awe

 

[thestrangequark]

^That is a stance I absolutely agree with! I felt it especially strongly during the recent FTL neutrino commotion. Though (rightly) cautious, I couldn't help but be excited at the possibility that we might be so wrong. What a thrill it would have been had those neutrinos actually been FTL!
I would be equally thrilled at an actual ghost or spirit, because of all the magical ideas we possess, I think the one I most wish were true would be an afterlife. Actual evidence for any sort of spirit or energy, or that the consciousness could survive without the living brain would be glorious. As it stands now, I see no reason other than fear or comfort-seeking to believe in that.
The other biggie I would really like to see, and the one that seems to have the most going for it in terms of odds, is aliens. I don't think any of the UFO sightings or alien abduction stories are true (they're all far more easily explainable as everyday phenomena like we've been discussing), but it sure would be awesome if we found them, even if they're only bacteria!

ETA: And as if in response to the shaking up of Relativity by the FTL neutrinos, researchers may have spotted gravity waves! COOL! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19408363

 

[Gryffindorian]

The "ghost hunter" shows on TV are totally ludicrous: a weird image in the dark that could've been nothing more than a camera flash or distortion; slamming doors or flying curtains that were probably caused by a breeze coming in. The idiots go, "OMG! Did you see that?!? Did you hear that???" As for the moaning sound, come on. I can moan, too. That doesn't make me a ghost.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The "ghost hunter" shows on TV are totally ludicrous: a weird image in the dark that could've been nothing more than a camera flash or distortion; slamming doors or flying curtains that were probably caused by a breeze coming in. The idiots go, "OMG! Did you see that?!? Did you hear that???" As for the moaning sound, come on. I can moan, too. That doesn't make me a ghost.

Heh, as I said elsewhere - maybe earlier in this thread, I forget - my wife and I have always wanted to go on one of those shows just to subvert and undermine it by playing ourselves as the Doctor and companion, just to see how long it would take them to notice, if at all...

 

[thestrangequark]

^Yeah, you posted that here. And I can't stop thinking of how fun that would be ever since! In fact, when a friend invited me to a ren fair this weekend, my first thought was, "It would be fun to go as the Doctor!"