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Getting back into ST books after several years... how is Vanguard?

I just finished reading Harbinger, Distant Early Warning, and Summon the Thunder. Really enjoying the series so far and thanks to everyone for the earlier comments. Reading Sorrows of Empire with the mirror-Vanguard definitely gave me an interesting entry point to the series, but at the same time reading that book also got me back into the ST books in general. In catching up I think I bought 35+ books, including every single ST book written by David Mack, so hopefully he and others see a spike in their royalty checks this month! And also congratulations to former fellow AOL Star Trek denizen Netrekker/Dayton Ward for hitting it big in the book world.

It was excellent to see how well developed and executed the Vanguard concept was. The book line has unfortunately very uneven in this regard. New Earth/Challenger, the Gateways hardcover, and the Voyager relaunch/Janeway in Before Dishonor made me want to kick the tires before I buy anything new. But luckily Vanguard is up there with the initial DS9 relaunch, SCE, Section 31, and The Lost Era.

Some spoilers for the first two books follow...


















The two things I didn't like:
-- The "embassies" on Starbase 47. This is a major pet peeve of mine. Often TV shows depict the "Colombian Embassy in Miami" (Burn Notice) or the embassy of a fictional country in Los Angeles (Chuck). With rare exceptions (like Tel Aviv vs Jerusalem), only the capital city of a country will have an embassy. The rest are all consulates or missions. The US has ambassadors and missions to the UN, NATO, EU, UNESCO, Organization to American States, etc. 24 and The X-Files were some of the few works of fiction on TV to get this right. Starbase 47 in not a sovereign state. The closest real world analog would be an international organization. So there should be diplomatic missions there, not embassies (or consulates since they have diplomatic personnel of ambassadorial rank). I did my summer college internship with the US Mission to the European Union and am used to having to explain the differences in embassies/consulates/missions to people, and trust me real world diplomats really get hung up on issues like this. The DS9 relaunch has Quark's Bar serving as the Ferengi Embassy to Bajor. This one actually works since Quark is the Ambassador to Bajor. Many developing countries can't afford to have both an embassy in Washington DC and a mission to the UN in New York, so sometimes you can have a de facto embassy outside of a capital region. And Jerusalem is the functioning capital of Israel, while Tel Aviv has the embassies and Jerusalem the consulates. I basically majored in diplomacy in grad school so apologies if this comes across as a rant. I know others point out science or military issues in Star Trek too so I hope this can be taken as constructive criticism. But it is something that knocked me out of the books every time an "embassy" came up.

-- The first attack on Erilon that killed Captain Zhao in Summon the Thunder... It's mentioned that several other Endeavor personnel and an SCE team were killed on the surface as well. But we're never told how many people actually died (or if anyone aboard the Endeavor was killed too). Was it 10? 50? I kept hoping Summon the Thunder would give a body count but it never came up. It was very hard to picture the scale of what had happened without that added piece of information.

Now everything else I did like:
-- Having many of the characters be unlikable. Bold choice that works wonders.
-- USS Bombay character development considering they were marked for death. I wish I'd known Amanda Tapping was supposed to "play" the captain while I was reading Harbinger.
-- How the TOS characters were integrated into the story. They find out about the situation in the Taurus Reach as we do. And Kirk provides a great contrast to Reyes' character.
-- Tongue and cheek references to the TOS mini-skirts...
-- Pennington really adds scale and contrast to the storyline. Not only do Reyes et al have to keep secrets from the Tholians and Klingons, but their own people.
-- Locating Vanguard in a new region of space but connecting it with the rest of the franchise. New Earth/Challenger was an interesting concept about a colony on the frontier, but once the Enterprise left Belle Terre there was nothing Star Trek about it, just a futuristic SF work by Diane Carey with her usual nautical and conservative libertarian touches.
-- Vanguard is about secrets. But instead of creating suspense by not divulging to the reader what those secrets actually are a la Lost, it let's you in on the secrets each character keeps from the others. This is very effective in creating character drama, especially with Desai and Reyes.
-- Xiang. Vanguard provides more a military-side view of Starfleet than some other series and authors, especially showing the contrast between officers and enlisted people (David Mack also has a very military depiction of Ezri and the Aventine in Destiny which I personally disliked, but he is more that entitled to his depiction and there is certainly nothing to contradict it in what has already been established). But Xiang also provides a great contrast with Starfleet military-types. Granted this independence did get Captain Zhao killed on Erilon, but then again Zhao could have been more flexible and would have survived...
-- Showing the Klingon's actually conquer an innocent pre-warp species. Many times both episodes and books have shied away from the conquering side of the Klingons and instead just focus on their internal honor. The Klingons even in the 24th century probably have more blood (and mass genocides) on their hands than the Romulans or Cardassians considering their much larger territory. Granted the Klingons were there big bads in TOS, but at least here they escapped historical revisionism.
-- Jetanien's line about being the last person to arrive at a meeting you've called. Will remember that one in real life...
-- Showing the Romulans without going all Rihansu on us. I wish the Enterprise relaunch would have done the same. Some things just don't need to be retconned in.

Well now on to my $15 but like new copy of Reap the Whirlwind...
 
Glad you're enjoying the series so far, cal888.

With regard to the embassy/mission issue in the early volumes of the series, that was definitely an error. I remember asking much the same question of my editor during the development process — "How can there be an embassy in unclaimed territory?" — but somehow we just never got around to fixing it as we should have. Not that I expect to ever get the chance, but if I could re-edit and revise new editions of my novels, this is on the short list of things I'd want to correct.

I hope you enjoy Reap the Whirlwind — that book remains one of my favorites among those that I've written. :)
 
Vanguard isn't just another Star Trek novel. Its a high quality "hard" sci-fi series that just happens to be set in the Star Trek universe.

Its really one of the few times the Star Trek novels have attained this.

Oh, and Reap the Whirlwind was my favorite novel in the series so far. The first 3 books were like a trilogy - so many things were "paid off" in that third book.

That's the one thats so danged hard to find too isn't it? Glad I bought it when it first came out, is all I can say!
 
Glad you're enjoying the series so far, cal888.

With regard to the embassy/mission issue in the early volumes of the series, that was definitely an error. I remember asking much the same question of my editor during the development process — "How can there be an embassy in unclaimed territory?" — but somehow we just never got around to fixing it as we should have. Not that I expect to ever get the chance, but if I could re-edit and revise new editions of my novels, this is on the short list of things I'd want to correct.

I hope you enjoy Reap the Whirlwind — that book remains one of my favorites among those that I've written. :)

Thank you! I'm about 50 pages in at the moment. Interesting to see Gamma Tauri IV go "indie". Haven't seen that explored before in Star Trek.

The political and social implications of human colonization of other planets is something the various series have largely avoided. As long as you didn't come across an alien species that wanted to invade Earth, having a plethora of uninhabited yet habitable planets for colonization would be the single most profound change resulting from discovering FTL travel along with other intelligent life. The Federation tolerating its citizens forming independent colonies would be a major social game changer. You could have a Terra Prime-type xenophobic colony, a Tea Party populist colony, a neo-Marxist colony, religious fundamentalist colonies etc (I remember John Bentacourt's Double Helix book exploring something like this, but I'm not sure if the planet was officially part of the Federation, been 12 yrs). This could explain in a way how Turkana IV turned out the way it did, and why Earth was such a paradise and politically homogenous entity aside from the post scarcity economy. One of the reasons the US has its more fringe elements is that Europeans dumped their religious and political oddballs here.

And obviously being a Fereration protectorate colony could have its own risks. The Maquis colonies changed sovereignty without the consent of their local populations a la Hong Kong, the UK, and China when it was determined to be in the Federation's greater interest.
 
^ Exactly. All of those notions were close to what I and editor Marco Palmieri had in mind when we started hashing out the Gamma Tauri IV story arc.
 
Finished Reap the Whirlwind today.

Spoiler space for others getting into Vanguard...













-- I literally burst out laughing during the IKS Zin'za "shitty day" chapter. :lol:I'm glad I wasn't reading that part of the book in a public setting. Hilarious, and it kept getting more and more over the top. Blowing up a planet is one thing, but comedy is really difficult to pull off well and it works here. PAD/New Frontier would have stopped with the sewage backup, but the effects and cleanup take it to the next level...

The gagh was dead.
...
Picking up a fistful of the expired serpent worms, Kutal looked at the ruined delicacy and shook his head in dismay at this final insult. "Who would be so ruthless?" (Mack 232).

-- The way Jetanien interacts with others is starting to remind me of an instructor I had in grad school who was a former British ambassador. The Vanguard series really does a good job showing that in reality, many of the people who make it to the top in life are assholes, while the nice people get stuck in middle management.

-- The Apostate was "chill" as they say.

-- Pennington (who granted has his own motives) and Theriault go out of their way to help the yoked Tholians, and a good deed actually does go unpunished when the Tholian ship then helps out the Sagittarius. Nice bit of optimism here.

-- Liked the direction Reyes took in the end and there was no right or wrong way to handle secrets in the end.
 
^ Glad you liked it. The next two volumes in the series, Open Secrets and Precipice, are a shift in pacing and tone from the breakneck pace that marked the first three books. Things are going to turn introspective for a bit. But have no fear, this was planned, and more ass-kicking is coming down the pike...
 
I've only just started the second book in the series, but I'm already loving Vanguard. I could go on and on really, but so many people have said it so much better then I could already, so why bother? :D

All I can say is, buy them, read them, love them!!
 
I'm reading Harbinger in e-book form, its a good series my only complaint can probably be siad of alot of first books in a series, lots of introductions, a little slow to get into the plot, the first 100 pages for the most part. Sometimes I get impatient, thats what so good about TOS books they can pretty much get going right out of the gate.

A similar series I was dissapointed that it never continued was the Starfleet Year One Book. I enjoyed that alot, but the series got dropped, was it in favor of Vanguard?
 
And Starfleet: Year One was just a miniseries of 12 short installments that got collected as a single volume after the fact. There was, of course, the possibility of continuing the story if sales warranted it, but it's inaccurate to say it was "dropped" because there were never any specific plans to continue it beyond the original miniseries. It's just that the advent of Enterprise ruled out the possibility of any such plans being made later on.
 
MJF doing his own series evolved into Star Trek: Stargazer.

According to Voyages of the Imagination, he did hope to do Starfleet Years Two through Seven.
 
^Yeah, but a hope is not a plan. When I sold Ex Machina, I hoped I'd get to revisit the post-TMP period afterward, but that doesn't mean ExM was intended to be the first installment of a series that then got "dropped."
 
^Yeah, but a hope is not a plan. When I sold Ex Machina, I hoped I'd get to revisit the post-TMP period afterward, but that doesn't mean ExM was intended to be the first installment of a series that then got "dropped."

Considering how overexposed TOS is compared to the other series, I'm surprised how little work has been set in the immediate post-TMP timeframe. The only other work in the last 15 years anyway I can think of is Glenn Greenberg's excellent Untold Voyages for Marvel. You definitely "identified a gap in the literature" as an academic would say and ran with it.
 
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I summarized the first 5 books in memory beta's pages for them in case someone wants to get into the series this summer but can't find any of the out of print books.

I can't praise this series enough. They are excellent, cover to cover.
 
^Yeah, but a hope is not a plan. When I sold Ex Machina, I hoped I'd get to revisit the post-TMP period afterward, but that doesn't mean ExM was intended to be the first installment of a series that then got "dropped."
I know I keep asking this, like a broken record, but in the wake of WTC, TP5, and FH, have you tried pitching a post TMP story again to the new editor(s)?
 
^I haven't done anything in the wake of those projects yet, since I just finished writing the Typhon Pact novella three days ago and haven't started writing Forgotten History yet.
 
After taking a Vanguard break and reading several Star Trek and non Star Trek books, I finished Open Secrets today. I had a much more mixed reaction to it than the first three books, due to one plot point I had a very difficult time buying into. More on that after all the "good stuff" I enjoyed.

Some spoilers...










I really admire how (almost) everything really comes together and gels in the Vanguard books. Vanguard takes the "essence" of Star Trek to a really three dimensional level while still remaining at the core Star Trek. An expanded canvas, a larger cast, more aliens yet without overdoing it, linked into the chronology of TOS but easily accessible to 24th century fans, lots of continuity but without falling into the "continuity porn" stage, plot points not lingering too long (ref T'Prynn's condition, the tomb from the end of Reap the Whirlwind), new developments occurring organically, and spot on pacing. I wish NF could be so seamless!

I really liked Nezrene from Reap the Whirlwind being followed up on and joining the Vanguard cast of characters. Sometimes helping others out doesn't have to blow up in your face after all. Norgura was introduced well, and the characters know him before meeting him by reputation, like the reader of the book, which was joined up well. Komoraq attacking the Endeavor thinking it had a male captain was a nice touch. Oh and two more planets blown up.

The main drawback for me was simply not being able to buy into the charges against Reyes for releasing classified information (he did bring in Quinn and Pennington to help the Sagittarius crew and I could easily see the charges focusing on that). I can understand Starbase 47 trying to censor outgoing messages, and Reyes wanting to help Pennington but not by trying to evade one of his subordinates who would take the fall for failing to censor his message. Starbase 47 is three months from Earth so communicating without using the Starbase's facilities would also be a limiting factor I can accept. But couldn't another way have been found to get Pennington's article out about the Shedai? Couldn't he have tried to hide the article in a larger video message? Or used Ganz or Quinn's ships to transmit the message to a contact within the range of the transmitters on those ships who could then relay it to the Federation News Service or piggyback it onto the 23rd century version of email or the internet? The article could have gotten out without destroying Reyes' career, just maybe would have taken an extra day or two to be published. And at the Court Martial no one even asked Reyes why Pennington couldn't have found another way to get the message out. It would have been one thing if he wanted to commit career suicide for what happened on Gamma Tauri IV, but he obviously wanted to fight the charges against himself. This just didn't line up well for me. And I wish the back cover of Precipice didn't have to spoil the ending of Open Secrets either...
 
I'm now caught up on all Vanguard (and Mirror Vanguard) just in time for the two new books coming this year.

Liked Precipice and the different approach it took covering an entire year. I had only 1 complaint (or should I say constructive criticism) about the book.

Top highlights for me:
-- Quinn's backstory
-- The possible origin of Nimbus III. Most of the time TFF is just ignored, but for the timeline of that movie to work with Five-Year-Mission-TOS, Nimbus III would have needed to be established ASAP after "Balance of Terror".
-- So that's where replicators come from...
-- Showing the inherent problems of using basically a 20th century justice system / "human rights" laws in an interstellar age. Sure with new technology you could catch simple criminals or the person that killed their husband/wife, but if you're part of an organized criminal network you could easily play the system and get away with murder.

The one thing that didn't sit well with me:
-- Ming accidentally destroying over a dozen planets while investigating the enumerated Shedai-containing artifact. Were any of the planets inhabited? This really should have been developed more fully. Wouldn't he feel incredibly guilty? He could have easily killed over 10 billion people. Granted planets get destroyed a lot in Vanguard but this would be kind of a big deal even if it was covered up. But the timing is right for a "reason Ceti Alpha VI" blew up explanation, provided the Mutara Sector is part of the Taurus Reach.

Good luck to David Mack and Dayton Ward with their next Vanguard work.
 
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