Spoilers Georgiou

[David Hanley]

I was searching to see if a thread existed on this character, especially as there are plenty of rumours of S31 based spin offs with Michelle Yeoh returning. There was one....but it was....lacking.
I felt this was another excellent case of Trek character building. When she was introduced, we hate her. As is designed in her role as MU Empress. However over time in the prime universe we see her become accustomed to that classic Trek morality portrayed by humanity and Yeoh (as well as the writers) allow her character to become something so much more. She grows with the crew, she chooses the right "side" and helps them to overcome Control before joining them in the Future.
The episode where she helps Mirror Saru is excellent character development. We see her back in her role of Empress, but this time with a good dose of humanity picked up along the way. The way she saves MU Saru is brilliant character building.
Then the episode with the Guardian of Forever....which leaves the door open for the spin off.
What do you all think, do you agree with me? Did you continue to dislike her? Did you not get the same feeling from the character? Would you have liked to see her develop in another manner?

 

[fireproof78]

In my opinion Georgiou is an example of actual character development that embraces the supposed Roddenberry ideal of humanity improving itself. Despite the very abrasive external nature we see the human capacity to grow in a new environment. Reminds of a saying that I have used in counseling practice; "When a plant doesn't grow you don't punish the plant; you change the soil."

I think Georgiou had probably one of the biggest symbolic journeys within the series thus far and it was enjoyable because of it.

 

[David Hanley]

In my opinion Georgiou is an example of actual character development that embraces the supposed Roddenberry ideal of humanity improving itself. Despite the very abrasive external nature we see the human capacity to grow in a new environment. Reminds of a saying that I have used in counseling practice; "When a plant doesn't grow you don't punish the plant; you change the soil."

I think Georgiou had probably one of the biggest symbolic journeys within the series thus far and it was enjoyable because of it.

I may steal the line about the plant. No promises

 

[fireproof78]

I may steal the line about the plant. No promises

Welcome to it. It certainly wasn't original thought on my part.

 

[Deks]

In my opinion Georgiou is an example of actual character development that embraces the supposed Roddenberry ideal of humanity improving itself. Despite the very abrasive external nature we see the human capacity to grow in a new environment. Reminds of a saying that I have used in counseling practice; "When a plant doesn't grow you don't punish the plant; you change the soil."

I think Georgiou had probably one of the biggest symbolic journeys within the series thus far and it was enjoyable because of it.

Essentially yes.
Human behavior is a product of environmental influence. Changing the environment changes human behavior.
:-)
It will be interesting to see how she further develops in her own show.

 

[NCC-73515]

She was awful until she was confronted with an apparent return to her universe. I was hoping they'd keep her there, and that the 31 show would deal with her preparing the Empire for Spock's revolution with a secret organization that is good and tries to help rebels etc.

 

[Deks]

She was awful until she was confronted with an apparent return to her universe. I was hoping they'd keep her there, and that the 31 show would deal with her preparing the Empire for Spock's revolution with a secret organization that is good and tries to help rebels etc.

I wouldn't say she was awful.
She went from a cold blooded killer and dictator to a relatively hot-headed temperamental secret agent who occasionally assassinated people.

Well, not sure if that's an improvement... but you can't exactly expect massive change overnight (even though it IS possible - at least for those who try).
At least she didn't try seizing control of the Federation, or establish her own little mini-empire with Terran ways. She WAS doing things differently.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Worst main crew member in the history of Trek. Even worse than the genius boy acting ensign

 

[nic3636]

The idea of having a MU main character was innovative and Michelle Yeoh is a great actor. I think in S2 and the beginning of S3 they leaned too much into giving her a bunch of (often stupid) snarky one line comments. Most of them fell flat and made her character come across as a one dimensional cartoon. It got better later on in S3 when her and Kovich were sizing each other up (minus the dumb blinking thing) and I really liked her MU two parter. That was when they got to the meat of the character development and I thought it was really well done. But it would have been nice to see more character development during S2 and S3 instead of all crunched into the MU 2 parter.

I also liked how the show subtilty laid the groundwork for her redemption by attributing the aggressive MU personality traits to a genetic defect of some kind and then implying during the MU 2 parter that some of the cruelty she was known for might have been exaggerated or made up entirely.

 

[fireproof78]

Georgiou was worth it for the S3 2 parter alone.

 

[Jadeb]

The idea of having a MU main character was innovative and Michelle Yeoh is a great actor. I think in S2 and the beginning of S3 they leaned too much into giving her a bunch of (often stupid) snarky one line comments. Most of them fell flat and made her character come across as a one dimensional cartoon. It got better later on in S3 when her and Kovich were sizing each other up (minus the dumb blinking thing) and I really liked her MU two parter. That was when they got to the meat of the character development and I thought it was really well done. But it would have been nice to see more character development during S2 and S3 instead of all crunched into the MU 2 parter.

I also liked how the show subtilty laid the groundwork for her redemption by attributing the aggressive MU personality traits to a genetic defect of some kind and then implying during the MU 2 parter that some of the cruelty she was known for might have been exaggerated or made up entirely.

I agree with your post except for the endorsement of the genetic explanation. I really dislike that idea. To me, it undercuts the point of the MU: That people aren’t inherently good or bad but are shaped by their environment and can choose to make things better.

The “evil” MU folks shouldn’t just look like us, they are us, in a different circumstance.

 

[fireproof78]

The flower of humanity as Spock would say. I think that the MU works even with the genetic explanation. They are still human but have embraced the more violent aspects of human nature.

 

[nic3636]

I agree with your post except for the endorsement of the genetic explanation. I really dislike that idea. To me, it undercuts the point of the MU: That people aren’t inherently good or bad but are shaped by their environment and can choose to make things better.

The “evil” MU folks shouldn’t just look like us, they are us, in a different circumstance.

I get where you are coming from. I guess I interpreted the genetic defect as something that isn't so strong it overrides free will, but creates a natural aggressive tendency that would cause an otherwise "normal" person to engage in violent behavior, which is of course amplified by the MU environment. So the environment is still a big factor, but not 100% responsible. In my mind, it helped explain how Georgau was able to be redeemed, as being in a Starfleet environment made it much easier for her to suppress her natural violent tendencies.

 

[fireproof78]

Which just sounds like human beings in general.