Spoilers Georgiou Season 3 Rank

[trek.punk]

With Discovery S3E02 airing this past Thursday, I heard our favorite Terran referred to as "Commander" Georgiou more than once. Where did this come from?

After returning from the Mirror Universe in Season 1, she was passed off as Captain Georgiou for her long dead doppelganger. Pike seemed to go along with that notion until the end of Season 2.

I don't recall her getting named Commander of Section 31, or demoted within Starfleet.

What did I miss?

 

[BillJ]

Probably a change that will never be explained, but they couldn't have her outranking Saru.

Funny thing is, they have her wearing an Admiral's badge in the very next episode, per the trailer for "People of Earth".

 

[Noname Given]

With Discovery S3E02 airing this past Thursday, I heard our favorite Terran referred to as "Commander" Georgiou more than once. Where did this come from?

After returning from the Mirror Universe in Season 1, she was passed off as Captain Georgiou for her long dead doppelganger. Pike seemed to go along with that notion until the end of Season 2.

I don't recall her getting named Commander of Section 31, or demoted within Starfleet.

What did I miss?

She was Captain Georgiou to the rest of Starfleet as Starfleet command was of course keeping her true origin a state secret.

Remember that Pike didn't even know the situation with Georgiou when she first was revealed to him, although he suspected something was up. Remember the piece of dialogue between him and Burnham where she tells him it's complicated and she doesn't have time to fill them in now, and she'll go into detail later; and he responds with , okay but don't make me come looking for you later. Thus we can assume he was filled in with the whole story sometime off screen.

However everyone who was assigned to the USS Discovery, and have lived through everything leading up to her crossover to the PU knows exactly who and what she is; and Pike or Saru gave her an actual commission at Commander just before the final battle and subsequent jump into the wormhole.

 

[Kelso]

She became a commander the scene where Nhan became Discovery's security officer.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Had a dream this night that 32nd century starfleet recreated Prime Georgiou with the help of programmable matter and that she ends up as the protagonist of the Section 31 show

 

[fireproof78]

Establishing a clear chain of command would be important for Discovery's survival. There needs to be clearly defined roles, and giving Georgiou a rank would support such a delineation.

Probably a change that will never be explained, but they couldn't have her outranking Saru.

Funny thing is, they have her wearing an Admiral's badge in the very next episode, per the trailer for "People of Earth".

Sure. She probably created it as a pushing of buttons and Saru has to reassert her rank.

Simple, really, at least to me.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

After returning from the Mirror Universe in Season 1, she was passed off as Captain Georgiou for her long dead doppelganger.

Now that the Discovery and crew are in the future, there's no longer any need for MU Georgiou to pose as her prime counterpart. Thus, she doesn't have to be a Captain anymore, and effectively, she never was.

Since she DOES need to be subordinate to Saru, for chain-of-command purposes, Georgy can still be given the field rank of Commander, without any contradiction.

(Doesn't explain why she is wearing an Admiral's uniform in the preview for "People of Earth", though.)

Side note: It is interesting, though, in that we never found out - and probably never WILL find out - whether the Empress ever actually served in the Starfleet of her home universe..

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, once they were in the future they no longer needed to maintain the ruse that she was the original Captain Georgiou, so Saru probably gave her a field rank commensurate to her experience but subordinate to him in the chain of command.

As far as why she is wearing an admiral's uniform in the next episode, my guess would be that the crew are using her authoritative sounding tone and overall presence to have her pose as a Starfleet admiral to give them more credence and authority when they make contact with the remnants of Starfleet.

ETA: Changed the thread title to make it a little more descriptive, and added a SPOILER prefix.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Georgiou stopped being a 'captain' when she joined section 31. Georgiou identified herself as a 'retired starfleet captain' operating as a 'security consultant'. Captain Leland probably reinstated her as a commander, which was part of the reason why georgiou resented him.

 

[The Wormhole]

Georgiou stopped being a 'captain' when she joined section 31. Georgiou identified herself as a 'retired starfleet captain' operating as a 'security consultant'. Captain Leland probably reinstated her as a commander, which was part of the reason why georgiou resented him.

Although, Admiral P'Tar still addressed her as "Captain Georgiou" in the Talos episode. And as an Admiral with authority over Section 31, she likely knew who Georgiou really was.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Which is why I personally think the "Commander Gergiou" reference doesn't mean anything.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Although, Admiral P'Tar still addressed her as "Captain Georgiou" in the Talos episode. And as an Admiral with authority over Section 31, she likely knew who Georgiou really was.

Oh yeah, i forgot about that.

Maybe it was just a dialogue error on Doug Jones part that didn't get picked up.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps since Saru was acting captain, he wanted to hammer home that HE was in command and not her. Hence addressing her by a lower rank.

 

[DigificWriter]

Perhaps since Saru was acting captain, he wanted to hammer home that HE was in command and not her. Hence addressing her by a lower rank.

Georgiou wasn't assigned to the Discovery, so this notion doesn't comport with logic.

Georgiou holding the rank of Captain means nothing with regards to Saru having been given command of the Discovery - and the position of Captain - by Pike and with the approval and recognition of Admiral Cornwell.

 

[Timo]

Of course, that's at the heart of the issue: Pike clarified nothing in "Sorrow", nor did Cornwell.

The chain of command aboard the hero ship is in utter shambles, with half a dozen engineers of high rank, with unknown seniority in rank, being mismanaged by the former Acting Captain who still hasn't clarified who his XO is (absent Michael), who his CEO is, or even who his CMO is. We only ever got Chief of Security, with Nhan, who outranks most folks aboard and might be the de facto XO till Michael returns. And possibly remain that even after her return.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DigificWriter]

Of course, that's at the heart of the issue: Pike clarified nothing in "Sorrow", nor did Cornwell.

The chain of command aboard the hero ship is in utter shambles, with half a dozen engineers of high rank, with unknown seniority in rank, being mismanaged by the former Acting Captain who still hasn't clarified who his XO is (absent Michael), who his CEO is, or even who his CMO is. We only ever got Chief of Security, with Nhan, who outranks most folks aboard and might be the de facto XO till Michael returns. And possibly remain that even after her return.

Timo Saloniemi

This is not true at all.

Saru is the seniormost officer directly assigned to the Discovery following the evacuation/and departure of Pike, Cornwell, and most of the ship's crew, and, as Executive Officer, takes command of the ship and its remaining assigned crew by virtue of both his rank and assignment.

Georgiou outranks him, technically, but she has no formal role aboard the Discovery and is present on the ship purely by her own choice.

 

[Timo]

But no. Before the battle, Pike gives the crew that absurd speech where he says the topic is the new captaincy and then indicates he doesn't give a shit and the heroes can sort it out between themselves. Saru just says there are arguments for giving command to a number of people, and never comes to a conclusion. This severely undermines Saru's authority, as formally the command is up for grabs now, the "acting" bit having been turned into a ticking clock that will ring doom for Saru once they clear the timehole.

And yes, Georgiou definitely outranks Saru. Pike addresses many of the heroes by their rank in the final speech, but when he last mentioned Georgiou's rank, moments before the speech, it was still very much Captain.

Although that mention came in a summons to his Ready Room. Perhaps he demoted Georgiou there and then, in an unseen moment? Or gave her secret orders to commandeer the ship on the other side, by any means necessary? All me know about that mysterious meeting is that at its conclusion, Georgiou still officially remains her "regular" self and even thinks her secret is safe from Pike, who only proves otherwise with a wink at the beam-out.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DigificWriter]

^ You grossly misunderstood the scene with Pike saying goodbye and good luck to those of Discovery us crew who had decided to go into the future.

 

[Timo]

No, I didn't. Pike directly promised to establish the future of the command, a crucially important thing for the survival of the heroes. He betrayed that promise. And Saru declared that he's not entitled to command beyond the wormhole, and it's going to be slugged out on the other side. Both men are idiots, unless

a) Pike has already secretly told Georgiou to take over - over Saru's dead body if need be
b) Pike and Saru have already secretly agreed on a change of command to somebody who is not Saru
c) it's a ploy to make one of the bridge team make a mutinous move, after which he or she can be eliminated
d) it was all a dream

, take your pick.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Georgiou outranks him, technically

Actually, no, she doesn't.

Whatever rank Georgiou might have is purely honorary. MU Georgiou never actualyl served in Starfleet (not the prime universe version, anyway), and no longer needs to pose as her prime counterpart, so she doesn't get to pull rank.

Saru always outranks her, pure and simple.