And far more relatable and connectable, in my opinion. I at least care about what happens to Finn, Poe, Rey, Rose and the rest. I was majorly annoyed by DJ's betrayal. There is a lot more emotion for me in these characters than in the PT.
Spoilers George Lucas blamed for Episode VIII?!
- Thread starter Qonundrum
- Start date
I'm curious about that as well. Finn received the same training as all the other stormtroopers, taken at the same age that they all were, so why did he 'break' where they didn't? Given how quickly Finn freaks out in the opening scenes of TFA, his training must not have 'caught on' like the rest of them did. I wonder if there's a reason for that...
Yeah, but that's a common trope...planting a 'fellow prisoner' whom Our Heroes would befriend, knowing full well he'd betray them. It's been done dozens (possibly hundreds) of times, not just in sci-fi but also in other genres like cop shows.
Granted. But I think that was intentional as well. The PT was set in a time when everything was very clean, bright, brand new, and quite sanitized. It's meant to contrast with the dark, gritty reality of life under the Empire's rule.
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The novel "Phasma" goes into a little detail about the First Order's training process. Up until they were in their teens, the "recruits" were educated and trained under a guy called Cardinal, a true believer that thought dictatorships were the only way to ensure peace and prosperity that let normal people live out contented lives. There's nothing about Finn specifically in the book, but I can definitely see a world where he buys into the idea that the FO is all about helping people and stopping the bad guys who want to live in lawless anarchy, and then being deflated when his buddy gets plugged in front of him in a raid on a nonmilitary target and no one gives a shit, and then an entire village is razed just for giggles. That's probably exactly the sort of stuff Finn was taught that terrorist Rebels did, and he just had the good luck to assimilate the reasoning and not just the fact that them=bad and us=good.
The implication of Finn always being stuck on janitor duties (and Phasma’s ‘always scum’ comment) seems to be that he just intrinsically lacked the ‘murder-kill-death drive’. The real question is why that didn’t get him executed earlier.
Admittedly, I think he does mention the prologue of TFA was his first actual mission. And Phasma certainly seemed ready to airlock him at the end of it. So that’d probably cover it.
And it’s not like he broke away from the FO for entirely for altruistic reasons. If Phasma hadn’t obviously noticed his freak out and started to investigate, he might not have ran at all.
I always though it was (at least intended to be) sarcasm. Like, the grunts have to sit around and do all the menial work.
"Wow, you were in the army? What was it like?"
"Boring...and I sure had to clean an awful lot of latrines"
But it sounds like he actually was a "janitor," or maybe part of a "sanitation unit." They should have the droids do that.
"Wow, you were in the army? What was it like?"
"Boring...and I sure had to clean an awful lot of latrines"
But it sounds like he actually was a "janitor," or maybe part of a "sanitation unit." They should have the droids do that.
I thought the troopers did have an officer corps? IIRC, they are the ones - mostly seen in the OT - who wear the black uniforms. (As opposed to Imperial Army/Navy, who wear dark green, and Intelligence/Security officers, who wear white unis)
I'm sure that the ratio of troopers to officers is rather skewed, but I'm fairly sure the black uniformed guys are (what passes for) officers in the Stormtrooper ranks.
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Every grunt has to start some where.
Possibly. The Clone Wars did at least. The movies never really established anything about their hierarchy one way or the other, coz well...it wasn’t important.
And god forbid something unimportant is just left to background details.
Although with TLJ having some members of the old Empire still around and wearing the old uniforms, I now want to rewatch and see if I can spot some of those guys.
There's also Captain Phasma to consider, as well. That's fairly conclusive proof of at least some kind of officer system within the Stormtrooper ranks. 
(Phasma was always seen in armor, but outside of an actual combat situation - which, for an active soldier like her, would be very rare - I'm sure she would wear the black uniform that we see other trooper-officers wear.)
(Phasma was always seen in armor, but outside of an actual combat situation - which, for an active soldier like her, would be very rare - I'm sure she would wear the black uniform that we see other trooper-officers wear.)
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Officers do NOT have latrine duty. At least, not in the U.S. Who cleans the latrines? The privates, but it's not an occupation. It's a rotational duty, or just something that everyone(of the privates) pitches in to do at the end of the day. On rare occasions, you might see an NCO pitching in to clean latrines. If you have a keen eye, you may however spot an officer picking up a windex bottle to clean off their computer screen.
(No offense to any Officers here. It's just not their place)
Cooks would usually be part of a quartermaster unit, which would have a commanding officer, but the only time that officer will be spotted in the messhall is when he/she is eating. Running the kitchen would be conducted by the NCOIC.
Maybe Finn wasn't a janitor at all, but worked in "Sanitation," as in operated huge machinery in the giant Starkiller interior that relates to plumbing, waterworks, etc.
(No offense to any Officers here. It's just not their place)
Cooks would usually be part of a quartermaster unit, which would have a commanding officer, but the only time that officer will be spotted in the messhall is when he/she is eating. Running the kitchen would be conducted by the NCOIC.
Maybe Finn wasn't a janitor at all, but worked in "Sanitation," as in operated huge machinery in the giant Starkiller interior that relates to plumbing, waterworks, etc.
They do here. Apparently, commanding officers can just lump on extra duties as punishments. My sister seemed to spend far too much time telling horror stories about punishment duties (such as latrine or cheese) when she was a Midshipman and Ensign.
(Admittedly, she did do a training course for some-accreditation-or-another when she was an Ensign. So she may not have been exagerrating when she claimed the stream of punishments were someone else’s fault.)
And for the love of god, do not suggest to her that she wasn’t ‘really’ an officer at the time. She used to be real touchy about that.
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There's a snowtrooper in General Veers' AT-AT with lieutenant insignia.
I didn't know they had insignia. Are you sure it's not a captain insignia? It could be captain Rex. Do you think it's captain Rex? I bet it's Captain Rex!
I'm not very familiar with the Navy. I could see a cadet having latrine duty, because they go through a sort of "basic training," too.
Also, the Clone Troopers in the OT had a rank structure as well. Those who were officers (or senior non-coms) had extra coloring on the shoulder (or maybe the helmet, I can't remember which) of the armor:
Green - sergeant
Blue - lieutenant
Red - captain
Yellow - commander
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It's the only instance in the OT that I'm aware of of a stormtrooper bearing a rank plaque of colored squares. The costume (or one just like it or very similar to it) is shown here:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net.../Snowtr.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080315230106
An officer on the Super Star Destroyer having an identical rank plaque is addressed by Piett as "lieutenant" at the end of the film (in the infamously mirror-reversed footage in the original version).
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cecius
So, yeah, it's a lieutenant snowtrooper. Veers addresses the trooper with the line, "All troops will debark for ground assault."
For the last two years, I was more or less in agreement. However, another film has come to pass and opinions change.
Rey: It has now been shown that there is absolutely no special reason at all for why in about the space of a week, she went from scavenging Star Destroyers to besting Luke Skywalker in single combat and taking out Praetorian Guards four at a time.
Verdict: Just a Mary Sue after all.
Poe: A real rebel among rebels. He can't even follow Leia's orders, so of course when leadership falls to purple haired Jurassic Park lady, he does the only rational thing that comes to him; stage a mutiny. I will however take into account the fact that purple haired Jurassic Park lady has a "Roger Rabbit" like mental deficiency which permits her to reveal her plans only when it's most dramatic.
Verdict: Arrogant, dangerous man-child.
Finn: A nice enough guy who enjoys dividing his time between looking out for others and looking out for himself. This time around, he's reduced to male escort duty for maybe one of the worst characters of them all. Then when he has the opportunity to go out in a blaze of glory and save the day, the idiot he had to spend the whole movie following around, follows him and in an unbelievably traitorous act, rams him off course, denies him his moment, almost kills him anyway and allows the First Order to accomplish their goal of breaching the door.
Verdict: A wasted character who may never have had any real place in the saga to begin with.
Rose:
Verdict: Death.
