Genetics / genealogy

[thestrangequark]

On my father's side, my grandmother was the daughter of a Cherokee chief. My grandfather, a minister, fell in love with her and the rest is history... my family history. I would like to delve further into Dad's side of the family. I know of a few historical figures through family stories, but would like to document them.

No offense...but I've met more people whose grandmothers were the daughters of Cherokee chiefs than I think is actually possible.

As for me, there's a great aunt or second cousin or something on my dad's side who's really into genealogy. My paternal grandmother's ancestors were French and came over to Canada in the early 1600s, then migrated to New Orleans. My paternal grandfather was of primarily English and Irish ancestry, and his family was traced back to 16th century London. The family lore is that at some point in the early 19th century four brothers came over from England and one went in each direction...my paternal grandfather would be the product of the one who went south.

My mom's Ojibwe: Turtle Mountain Clan Chippewa.

I'd be interested in what a genetic analysis would show.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ I haven't read the stuff I've come across about genetic testing and Indians very carefully, just because that's one category that I know I'm not, but my impression is that they can't reliably distinguish tribes/nations at this point. The data bases just don't have enough Indian DNA samples to compare individuals to. If I come across anything that says otherwise, I'll let you know.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I'd suspect that there may be some ability to distinguish between different ethnic groups -- like Pacific Northwest Indians and inuit, Aleut, versus the rest of North America, and South American Indians. There's definitely way too much mixing between tribes, I think, to ever get much more detail than that. Perhaps with some more isolated tribes. My mom is Ojibwe but she likely has ancestors in many tribes as the Chippewa are extremely mixed. My dad has some Cherokee in him, but not much and he wasn't raised with the culture or anything.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ I tried to resist, but I can't help myself... Was his grandmother the daughter of a Cherokee chief?

 

[thestrangequark]

^Didn't you know? Everyone has a Cherokee Princess for an ancestor!

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Yeah, even I've heard that the Cherokee princess thing too many times to be plausible.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Well, the fact that there was no such thing as a Cherokee princess makes it more impossible than implausible.

To be fair to Sector7, though, he may very well have a Cherokee grandmother who was the daughter of a chief, so I don't bring this up to specifically doubt or mock him. It is just a very common family story, and often turns out to be untrue. I actually saw an episode of one of those finding your heritage shows, where they do the genetic research on a celebrity, and the celebrity had claimed the Cherokee ancestry, only to discover he had no indian ancestry at all. The person who was giving him his results informed him that most people who came to her claimed to have Indian ancestry, only to find out they had none at all. Chiefs are elected, though, and their families are not considered special. My great aunt is an Ojibwe Chief.

 

[Sector 7]

I knew my paternal grandparents. Their marriage caused quite a stir in those days. As a missionary/pastor, it was something of a scandal when they fell in love and married. Admittedly, as a teenager, I did not understand why their marriage was such a big deal. I was never able to meet my Cherokee relatives because they disowned her for marrying a white man.

Today, that scenario seems horrible. Times were different in the early 20th century. It just goes to show; you love who you love... love crosses many barriers. [If I told you how Dad married Mom... I don't think you would believe it either. ]

Note: while I have heard the term "tribal princess", in later years, no one in my family ever used the term.

Note 2: I am interested in using my aunt's genealogy, putting it on computer. Does anyone have suggestions for 'fill in the blanks' type software? Free software is preferred, but any ideas are helpful.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Yeah, like I said, I didn't mean that to mock you at all, or to presume you were lying or misinformed -- I can't know your family's history. It was just expression of general annoyance over the tendency to claim Indian heritage when, unlike you, the people actually have no clue, and apologies if I came off wrong.

 

[Sector 7]

^Yeah, like I said, I didn't mean that to mock you at all, or to presume you were lying or misinformed -- I can't know your family's history. It was just expression of general annoyance over the tendency to claim Indian heritage when, unlike you, the people actually have no clue, and apologies if I came off wrong.

No offense was taken, because no offense was given.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Sector, Ancestry.com has a free family tree part to it. No idea how good it is.

 

[Sector 7]

Sector, Ancestry.com has a free family tree part to it. No idea how good it is.

I just checked it out. 14-day free trial, $22.95/month thereafter. If you want to add more than one parent, you must join. I'll have to pass on that for now.

 

[iguana_tonante]

^ Iguana, my "Italian" genes don't go quite that far north, but, yes, all the way around the Mediterranean. My grandfather's family has been in Morlupo (Roma) for hundreds of years, my grandmother's in Cagliari.

Cool! Sardinia is really an interesting place, beautiful and strange at the same time. And Sardi are such a great people: they never fail to entertain!

^Didn't you know? Everyone has a Cherokee Princess for an ancestor!

I don't. Curse me and my confined ancestry!

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ Dare I ask just how they are entertaining?

I was there for a day when I was fifteen. Day trip in the midst of a week in Rome. Met the cousins, but that's about it. I'd love to go back someday. Everything I've seen online looks absolutely fascinating.

 

[iguana_tonante]

As far as personal anecdotes and as generalizations go, they tend to be highly reserved, and incredibly ferocious at the same time. You rarely get to see what they really think, but when you do, it's a sight to behold.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I want to take a look at the passenger lists for the port where my maternal grandparents arrived in 1922 or 23, and those are available only on microfilm, so I'll be spending a day at the public library soon. I wonder how many decades it's been since I used microfilm!

So it turns out that my grandparents arrived at an entirely different port than I'd thought! But now I have passenger lists and naturalization papers. I know the city where my grandmother was born -- also not where I'd thought! -- and the city where they were married. Baby steps.

Anyone here from Turkey?

My grandparents emigrated from Russia immediately after the revolution in October (November) 1917. They lived in Istanbul for five years before coming to the US. What I'd really love to find is immigration records for Turkey, but I doubt they even exist. There was just a tad of turmoil in the region at the time.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

they'd have been in Turkey during the Liberation War (after the Greek occupation in 1919). It's not very likely that documents survived. On the other hand it's not completely impossible. How about writing to the authorities in Istanbul? Since there are so many tourists and the country applied for membership in the EC almost all clerks are to be expected to speak English.
German Wikipedia claims that there are still approximately 100 000 people of Russian origin in Istanbul. It's possible that you have relatives there

 

[Gryffindorian]

I can probably trace back my family's history on either side by two generations, but no more than that. What I know about relatives living here in the U.S. and in the Philippines, I've learned from a family tree that my mom showed me.

As for genetic testing, I had one done back in 2011 through the Genographic Project. I submitted specimens of cheek swabs and had my "deep ancestry" traced back on my father's side. I'm a member of Haplogroup M175, which means my deep ancestors were from Eastern Asia. No big revelation there.

 

[RJDiogenes]

We've traced the family history on my mother's maternal side back as far as the Civil War. I had a great-whatever-grandfather who fought for the North (I've got a copy of his discharge papers). Not so much info on my father's side, although I did locate an Ebeneezer Hutchins who fought in the Revolution-- I hope he's an ancestor, because I'd love to be related to someone named Ebeneezer.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ Yes, that would be cool. It's a very ancestor-ish sounding name!

Gryffindorian, my maternal haplogroup wasn't very earthshattering either. I'm really only trying to go back far enough to figure out where that 25% Ashkenazi came from. My haplogroup isn't one of the ones that's almost always Ashkenazic, but it sometimes is Ashkenazic. So it doesn't help at all.

they'd have been in Turkey during the Liberation War (after the Greek occupation in 1919). It's not very likely that documents survived. On the other hand it's not completely impossible. How about writing to the authorities in Istanbul? Since there are so many tourists and the country applied for membership in the EC almost all clerks are to be expected to speak English.
German Wikipedia claims that there are still approximately 100 000 people of Russian origin in Istanbul. It's possible that you have relatives there

That would be neat, but unfortunately it's highly unlikely. My grandparents were in touch with family in Russia until sometime in the 1930's. To the best of my knowledge, no one else in the family ever emigrated.

Right now I'm working on a lead in Russia. At least I know the language enough that I can write a simple letter in collaboration with my friends Mr. Google Translate and Ms. Dictionary.

Next project will be to figure out whom to contact in Istanbul. Thanks for the encouragement in that direction.

ETA: Doh. The Turkish Embassy in DC should be able to send me in the right direction. Better yet, there's an honorary consul right in Baltimore.