Generations had a bigger budget than ST6, so why...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Beard of Sisko, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral


    Yup. Everyone was pissed at how Kirk was "shot in the back". With the scene available to view, now more than a select group of audiences in test screenings can see it. There's a tangible sense of tragedy and palpable gut-punch in his demise in the deleted scene, with Soran accomplishing what Khan could not (ouch!!), which doesn't exist at all in what was filmed and released instead - which is corny to the max. Kirk was to be killed off in a surprise and unexpected moment, since TNG was the future and it's too dorky fairytale to have Kirk survive. (Yep! Decades before Luke Skywalker, James Kirk was killed off for dramatic effect.)
     
  2. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I feel like we lost out on one last good Kirk fistfight by changing the ending of Ggenerations. But honestly, there was no good way to kill Kirk in the scenario they scripted. His "first death" in the opening was the way for him to go.
     
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  3. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I actually kind of liked that the makers of Deep Space Nine trolled the viewers by using it yet again *in the final episode*.
     
  4. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They reused a few very memorable shots.

    But that was a TV show, so I give it a pass. I remember when JAG used the main action set piece from Clear and Present Danger. Oy.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never noticed, but then Clear and Present Danger was never my favorite Jack Ryan film.
     
  6. Timby

    Timby The stoicism of the true warrior Administrator

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    I don't think that was trolling so much as at that point, DS9's effects budget was blown so they were re-using shots left and right and robbing Peter to pay Paul. (Note how many shots of the Defiant are re-used even though by that time it's the Sao Paolo.)
     
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  7. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    They should have dumped the boat scene at the beginning, just have them celebrating Worf's promotion in Ten Forward and given the Duras sisters a contemporary Klingon battlecruiser.
     
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  8. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well a Ten Forward party is hardly the cinematic introduction to the TNG cast they were looking for. That would work on TV in a season premiere or finale (such as when Sisko got his promotion). And it also introduced Data's issues understanding jokes. I guess they could have had him shove a cake into Beverly's face but, again, that feels very "television."

    I liked the original idea of the Enterprise coming out of the sun to engage the Romulans at the observatory.
     
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  9. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I noticed it on my very first viewing of GEN. But I'd rewatched my VHS tape of STVI a LOT in the previous three years, so that shot was VERY familiar to me.

    I still say they could have at least flipped the shot to disguise it slightly.
     
  10. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    That would have been cool
     
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  11. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    But if the boat scene (among others) compromises the budget forcing them into cheaping out on action scenes, what's the point? The way generations was shot, it would have looked good regardless, the film looks stunning.
     
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  12. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They didn't use that same shot from TUC, but the interior shots of the Klingon ship exploding that were original to GEN.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't remember the BOP shot being reused in WYLB.
     
  14. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    what? where I can watch that?
     
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  15. SithHappens

    SithHappens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I found it from Google years ago. Appaling quality though.

    The novelisation still had Kirk being shot in the back.
     
  16. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  17. Timby

    Timby The stoicism of the true warrior Administrator

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    As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the boat scene really didn't blow the budget. What did was paying $6 million to Shatner, $1 million each to Doohan and Koenig, and signing the TNG cast to their movie contracts. That ate a lot out of a $30 million budget. (Edit: So did the incredibly compressed filming schedule; the old adage of "fast, cheap and good, pick two" really applied on Generations.)

    After that, ILM told the production staff, "You can afford a really great space battle, or you can have a really great saucer crash. You cannot afford both."
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  18. Daddy Todd

    Daddy Todd Commodore Commodore

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    The hardcover first edition has the shot-in-the back ending. The paperback reprint that came out ~1 year later was rewritten to include Kirk's demise as depicted in the film. I think the ebook follows the paperback edition.
     
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  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I read the original version, and I prefer the version we got.

    I wonder how GEN might have turned out if it hadn't suffered budget limitations. It was certainly ambitious, and the Klingon battle had room for being...an actual battle...but no amount of money could innately fix the story problems.
     
  20. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See right there is a classic Shatner fight that could have been retained to a great degree without compromising the reshot climax. It shows Soran is formidable in a fight and why Kirk was more appropriate in this scenario than Picard.
     
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