And lets face it, Nemesis isn't anyone's idea of a fantasy... its a nightmare!!
Generations Cop Out!
- Thread starter Takomaguy
- Start date
Ebuntor said:
Wesley was at Riker and Troi's wedding, why would he want that brat there? He was prolly glad he finally got rid of him .Besides if Wesley was to become Riker's Chief Engineer on the Titan why would he do that to Riker if he was really sorry to see him go?
Ah, but we never saw Wes on screen, so he was a non-cannon addition to Nemesis... wow I see why the cannon argument is used so often! Don't like something? Get rid of it!
Hmm, as for O'Brien... Okay, so season 1-3 of DS9 happened in the real world. However, I'm assuming Worf went to DS9 right after Generations, so his fantasy was to be on DS9 for some odd reason. So, there we go! DS9 has been explained away!
archeryguy1701 said:
Ebuntor said:
Wesley was at Riker and Troi's wedding, why would he want that brat there? He was prolly glad he finally got rid of him .
Ah, but we never saw Wes on screen, so he was a non-cannon addition to Nemesis... wow I see why the cannon argument is used so often! Don't like something? Get rid of it!
Hmm, as for O'Brien... Okay, so season 1-3 of DS9 happened in the real world. However, I'm assuming Worf went to DS9 right after Generations, so his fantasy was to be on DS9 for some odd reason. So, there we go! DS9 has been explained away!
Actually we did see him on screen otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.
So mind explaining why Picard would have send Wesley to the Titan in his Nexus fantasy? http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis039.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis036.jpg
Just to confuse the issue a little more "our" O'Brien died in Visionary and was replaced by another O'Brien six hours from the future!
Nothing to do with Generations just like to see the headaches come thick and fast
Nothing to do with Generations just like to see the headaches come thick and fast
Oh, I thought the Generations cop out was that 'casualties were minimal' when the saucer section of the Enterprise-D made planetfall. Yeah right!
To confess, I left the theater screaming after GEN ... I hated it so much. And I haven't softened that much toward it even now.
But one of the things that always bothered me is that Soran got what he wanted. The whole "Bring Kirk out of the Nexus to fight Soran" was a waste.
They made it a point to say that "time is meaningless" in the Nexus. Soran was in the Nexus. Just because Picard and Kirk left to fight him doesn't mean that the Nexus spit him back out. Kirk and Picard fought Soran II.
Soran I entered the Nexus and stayed there. Picard was a dumb-ass for simply not returning in a way he could easily disable the launcher and get the hell out of there. He didn't need Kirk. Or, better yet, return while Soran's still on the Enterprise and make sure he never got close to Veridian.
That was a problem with the Nexus - it was so open-ended. No rules. They could have told the story a thousand different ways - lots of them boring. Yet they picked the most contrived, non-sensical route just so they could kill Kirk ... by collapsing a bridge, of all things.
13+ years, and it still angries up my blood ...
But one of the things that always bothered me is that Soran got what he wanted. The whole "Bring Kirk out of the Nexus to fight Soran" was a waste.
They made it a point to say that "time is meaningless" in the Nexus. Soran was in the Nexus. Just because Picard and Kirk left to fight him doesn't mean that the Nexus spit him back out. Kirk and Picard fought Soran II.
Soran I entered the Nexus and stayed there. Picard was a dumb-ass for simply not returning in a way he could easily disable the launcher and get the hell out of there. He didn't need Kirk. Or, better yet, return while Soran's still on the Enterprise and make sure he never got close to Veridian.
That was a problem with the Nexus - it was so open-ended. No rules. They could have told the story a thousand different ways - lots of them boring. Yet they picked the most contrived, non-sensical route just so they could kill Kirk ... by collapsing a bridge, of all things.
13+ years, and it still angries up my blood ...
Ebuntor said:
archeryguy1701 said:
Ebuntor said:
Wesley was at Riker and Troi's wedding, why would he want that brat there? He was prolly glad he finally got rid of him .
Ah, but we never saw Wes on screen, so he was a non-cannon addition to Nemesis... wow I see why the cannon argument is used so often! Don't like something? Get rid of it!
Hmm, as for O'Brien... Okay, so season 1-3 of DS9 happened in the real world. However, I'm assuming Worf went to DS9 right after Generations, so his fantasy was to be on DS9 for some odd reason. So, there we go! DS9 has been explained away!
Actually we did see him on screen otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis039.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis036.jpg
Well, damn. I can honestly say that in all the times I watched Nemesis (and I've watched it a great many times), I have never seen him there before. Okay, I got it! Picard imagined him there because it would make Beverly happy. And as for the Titan thing, I know Wes going that way was never mentioned on screen, so I will de-cannonize that!
You need to stop arguing with me... you're making it very hard to rationalize my theory, and it's hurting my feelers.
I recently watched the film on DVD with the commentary by Moore and Braga & this was a self-criticism they brought up. The weakest point in the movie is the Nexus, because it is so ill defined. The commentary is worth a listen, because they are pretty frank about the requirements the studio heaved on the script and not afraid to point out the--rather obvious--failings of the story.
archeryguy1701 said:
You need to stop arguing with me... you're making it very hard to rationalize my theory, and it's hurting my feelers.
ROFL, that made my day.
Ok sorry no arguments from me, your theory is perfect. Picard sure has some great imagination considering he made up the entire Dominion War and all of Voyager's adventures. He'd make a great science fiction writer.
Yay! I won something for once!
Ach, I knew by the end, I was stretching that theory pretty thin. But, like I said somewhere upstream, if I'm really going to go down this road, may as well make it as wild and outlandish as possible with it still being almost plausible
Ach, I knew by the end, I was stretching that theory pretty thin. But, like I said somewhere upstream, if I'm really going to go down this road, may as well make it as wild and outlandish as possible with it still being almost plausible
TNG's "Too Short a Season" was originally going to have Admiral Kirk face his actions from TOS's "A Private Little War". Far better than "Generations. 
Well obviously for the story to work, you have accept that Guinan and Soran did leave the Nexus, as well as Kirk and Picard, without creating temporal duplicates. I don't find it that hard.
Holytomato said:
TNG's "Too Short a Season" was originally going to have Admiral Kirk face his actions from TOS's "A Private Little War". Far better than "Generations.
I've seen that come up from time to time, but no source or confirmation of that "Too Short a Season" was originally planned as a sequel to "A Private Little War."
They may have not gone all the way in. They could have based there opinions of the Nexus from stories they heard and the brief exposure they got before being pulled out.
