General Trek Questions and Observations

[Nerys Myk]

Remember, Voyager's writers were incapable of realizing that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant. You can't expect competent performance from them.

Nah, like many TV shows, especially before serialized storytelling took hold, they like to keep things the same. It's not a realistic look at military life. Realistically Riker should have left the Enterprise for his own command for before the show was over.

 

[Oddish]

Yes. Riker's career was skyrocketing. He made it from ensign to being offered his own ship in six years. And his decision to do "a tour on the flagship" for his career's sake suggests that he held ambitions for serious advancement, admiral's braid maybe. And then... he hits Enterprise and stagnates for 15 years.

There was an explanation, of course: the fans liked both Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes. The only way the series could keep both of them was for Riker to refuse promotion. Even though it made little sense for him to do so.

As for keeping things the same, Trek doesn't work that way. People ranked up. It was never an issue. Kirk was an admiral. Spock became captain. Geordi made LCDR. Sisko made captain. Ro and Nog made lieutenant. It was part of a character's evolution. Keeping Harry at ensign for 7 years violated this; it was both pointless and stupid.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk was an admiral. Spock became captain.

Kirk was bumped backdown to captain again to preserve the status quo. Spock becomes a Captain, but is a CO for like five seconds. He's back to being science officer/second in command. Status quo preserved

Geordi made LCDR.

He also stalls out at Lt Commander after two rapid promotions. Promotions that probably had to do with the character becoming Chief Engineer.

Sisko made captain.

Sisko should have been a captain on day one. Or even a commodore.

Ro and Nog made lieutenant.

Rules are different for re-occurring characters.

 

[Oddish]

Kirk was bumped backdown to captain again to preserve the status quo. Spock becomes a Captain, but is a CO for like five seconds. He's back to being science officer/second in command. Status quo preserved
He also stalls out at Lt Commander after two rapid promotions. Promotions that probably had to do with the character becoming Chief Engineer.

Sisko should have been a captain on day one. Or even a commodore.

Rules are different for re-occurring characters.

1. Kirk's reduction in rank does not change that he was promoted. It would have been perfectly fair for Harry to get busted back to ensign for bad behavior. Problem is, this was done with Tom instead.
2. Geordi gained two rank levels in one year, then hit the same barrier Data did. A barrier with a beard, a 'bone, and a thing for the ladies.
3. Right about Sisko. The show runners basically admitted the error. They made Sisko a captain and let Avery Brooks look the way he wanted to look (i.e. like Hawk).
4. Nine different main cast characters were promoted without changing jobs, ten if you count Kira. Would it have been so hard to make Harry #11?

 

[Nerys Myk]

1. Kirk's reduction in rank does not change that he was promoted.

It was meaningless though. It the promotion stuck it would be different.

2. Geordi gained two rank levels in one year, then hit the same barrier Data did. A barrier with a beard, a 'bone, and a thing for the ladies.

There are other ships.

 

[Oddish]

But the rules of the fandom were respected. Kirk's reduction to captain made sense. He was never cut out for flag officer rank, so Starfleet corrected an error.

Geordi and Data stalling at LCDR made less sense, but it was what I call a "needs must" situation. The audience liked Stewart, Frakes, Burton, and Spiner. The only way to keep all four was to ensure no promotions or transfers. Unrealistic but understandable.

Harry was another matter. There was no reason why he couldn't continue to run Voyager's ops console as an LTJG. Ergo, there was no reason not to follow the rules of the fandom and give him higher rank.

 

[Tenacity]

I don't recall an celebration for Tuvok's promotion. At the start of season three or four just have Harry with the insignia of a Lt jg, he's referred to as lieutenant, and his new rank simply is.

 

[Discofan]

I don't recall an celebration for Tuvok's promotion. At the start of season three or four just have Harry with the insignia of a Lt jg, he's referred to as lieutenant, and his new rank simply is.

There is a celebration of Tuvok's promotion at the beginning of the episode "Revulsion", the one where they meet the holographic serial killer. It starts with a banquet in his honor.

 

[Oddish]

There's an essay entitled "No Little Box, No Good Reason". If I can't find a link to it, I'll repost the text later. Along with completely wrecking every argument in favor of Harry's endless ensignhood, it provides a convenient solution for if the producers didn't want to shoot a "Janeway pins a little black pip on Harry's collar and everyone else claps" ceremony. Simply promote him at the start of "Night". At that point, two months has passed, and the viewer can rationalize that it happened long ago and people aren't making a big deal of it anymore.

Not even the decision to abandon Harry's character in favor of more interesting subjects like Seven, the Doc, and Janeway is a legitimate excuse.

 

[BillJ]

Would it have been so hard to make Harry #11?

If I remember correctly, Garrett Wang wasn't real popular behind-the-scenes, so his character got less and less to do. He wanted to direct episodes but didn't want to put in the work necessary to do it.

 

[Oddish]

Reread the post directly above yours. It addresses that.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Stalling at LCDR makes some sense, since there is apparently a test required for advancement, and La Forge (who had a quick promotion in rank, probably because his job required a certain rank to hold), didn't feel the need anymore to aspire to a Captaincy, and Data was all about exploring his humanity those first few years and was the very definition of unambitious. Troi and Crusher were medical staff officers, but for others, a promotion to Commander might bring the expectation of a transfer to an XO post and eventual Captaincy.

 

[Oddish]

La Forge is from a Starfleet family, and he does make captain in the "Timeless" timeline (and he gets a Galaxy class ship, too). It's unlikely that Voyager's return would stop that promotion from happening.

Data was set to be promoted to commander and first officer after Riker took command of the Titan, but he never got the chance.

 

[at Quark's]

But the rules of the fandom were respected. Kirk's reduction to captain made sense. He was never cut out for flag officer rank, so Starfleet corrected an error.Geordi and Data stalling at LCDR made less sense, b

The question remains what qualifications / personality traits are needed for flag officer rank in the Trek universe. Despite the empirical evidence, I'm still not willing to go with insanity, evilness, or "betraying the principles of the Federation" -like traits

 

[trekshark]

2. Geordi gained two rank levels in one year, then hit the same barrier Data did. A barrier with a beard, a 'bone, and a thing for the ladies.

Riker not leaving shouldn't have prevented them from becoming commanders though. Crusher was one from day 1, Troi became one

 

[Oddish]

Riker not leaving shouldn't have prevented them from becoming commanders though. Crusher was one from day 1, Troi became one

I agree, that was bullcrap. If they didn't want to have Picard promote Data, just have Jellico do it when he elevates the android to first officer. Picard opts not to undo it, just as he presumably encouraged Troi to stick with wearing a uniform instead of a boob outfit.

Geordi would have only been a LCDR for four years at the end of the series (which is not an unreasonable time at that rank), but he should have had commander's pips by the time he got his artificial eyes in "First Contact".

 

[1001001]

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[Discofan]

I think the most spectacular promotion is the one that "almost" happened to kelvin-Kirk from cadet to vice admiral in about five years or so!!! That's totally unprecedented!!!

 

[Orphalesion]

How come "Jean-Luc Picard" is never pronounced in the correct way? It's always said in an extremely anglophone/Americanized way.

I mean it's not difficult to pronounce it in the proper, French way.

 

[1001001]