General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Chaos Descending]

Buddy Rogers: Innagural WWWF Champion - supposedly won a tournament in Rio Di Janeiro, but in actual fact he was simply made champion as a result of his popularity.

Well, not exactly. He was the reigning NWA World Champion who lost to Lou Thesz in a single-fall match (common now, but in those days a best two-of-three falls decision was common). Since the WWWF controlled the rights to Buddy Rogers and didn't like that "their guy" had to drop the belt to someone who wasn't "their guy", the WWWF split from the NWA and recognized him as champion based on the idea that his loss to Lou Thesz wasn't "legit". Then of course they came up with the bogus Rio De Janeiro tournament.

Trivia: The WWE Intercontinental Championship was simply the old WWWF North American Heavyweight Championship re-named, but it also was justified in a fictional sense. The claim is that the IC title was created by a unification match between the WWWF North American champion and a (fictitious) "South American Champion", which also supposedly took place in Rio De Janeiro.

 

[Mr Silver]

Well, not exactly. He was the reigning NWA World Champion who lost to Lou Thesz in a single-fall match (common now, but in those days a best two-of-three falls decision was common). Since the WWWF controlled the rights to Buddy Rogers and didn't like that "their guy" had to drop the belt to someone who wasn't "their guy", the WWWF split from the NWA and recognized him as champion based on the idea that his loss to Lou Thesz wasn't "legit". Then of course they came up with the bogus Rio De Janeiro tournament.

Ah, but there have always been rumours that Vince McMahon Sr. and Toots Mondt had planned to leave the NWA anyway (I suppose this is fueled by McMahon Jr's national expansion in the 1980's that pissed the territorials off, although the AWA were also doing the same, to a lesser scale. Still, even though McMahon Jr. went against the elder McMahon's wishes and invaded the territories, there are some who doubt this and believe all sorts) - given that they seldom allowed Rogers to wrestle outside of their territory (Northeast USA at that time) and as you mentioned - Rogers was their guy.

Funnily enough, McMahon Sr. was involved with the NWA again in the 1970's, only this time they wouldn't book the NWA championship or champion - NWA at the same time didn't recognise the WWWF Championship as a world title.

In hindsight, McMahon and Co. were extremely lucky to have such a talent as the great Bruno Sammartino in their promotion who reached the level of Rogers' success (and beyond) as the succeeding champion. In fact, Sammartino was such a big draw that they brought him back for a three and a half year title reign in the 1970's.

Antonio Inoki is technically a former WWE Champion, although WWE doesn't recognise this for whatever reason, although it could be down to the fact that the change occured in Japan and would be too confusing for the fans back in the US (add to that some politics and business decisions) where Backlund (the previous champion) was the company's biggest draw and therefore WWE recognises Backlund's reign as being constant all the way from 1978 - 1983.

The way I see it though, the WWWF created a new championship with no previous lineage and awarded the title to Buddy Rogers because he was the biggest draw in their promotion and to the Northeast fans (WWWF's territory), he was the "world champion".

Trivia: The WWE Intercontinental Championship was simply the old WWWF North American Heavyweight Championship re-named.

I did not know this! Cheers for posting!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Sometimes we learn new things from trivia! I did know that about the IC Title...did anyone else collect the wrestling almanacs? The same company does Boxing ones and I think MMA/UFC ones now. I stopped collecting them a few years ago when the internet made their yearly events section irrelevant.

 

[Mr Silver]

"Almanacs" - So North American! In the UK we know them as annuals, but I've always liked the term almanac because it reminds me of BTTF2.

I do still have the special edition Wrestlemania 17 "almanac" somewhere, although it's not in the best of condition. That was pretty cool though because it did a feature on every Wrestlemania prior to 17 - which they were billing as X7 and there were several interviews with the likes of Howard Finkel.

 

[Mr Silver]

So everybody, since we're classing Wrestlemania XXVII to Wrestlemania XXVIII as a season of sorts - let's have your picks in the following categories (doesn't have to be WWE) along with my picks:


Best Male Wrestler: CM Punk
Best Female Wrestler: Gail Kim (as soon as she returned to TNA she was back to form)
Best Tag Team: Giant Bernard and Karl Anderson
Face Of The Year: Zack Ryder
Heel Of The Year: John Laurinaitis

Comeback Of The Year: The Rock (naturally)
Most Improved: Bobby Roode
Commentator Of The Year: Michael Cole (he's not actually that bad when he's not spouting lines fed from the Gorilla position)
Non-Wrestling Personality: John Laurinaitis

Best Storyline: Once In a Lifetime (Cena vs. Rock)
Best Talker: The Rock
Match Of The Year: CM Punk vs. John Cena (Money In The Bank 2011)
Event Of The Year: Money In The Bank 2011
Best Promotion: WWE (TNA was very close, given it's tremendous improvement in recent months along with sharp decline in WWE - until Brock came back!)

Biggest Missed Opportunity: The Conspiracy angle
Biggest Demotion: Alex Riley
Worst Wrestler: Michael Cole
Worst Match: Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
Worst Promotional Tactic: WWE's obsession with social networking

 

[Admiral_Young]

Miz should be on everyone's Biggest Demotion selection...I mean come on he was a former WWE Champion, had an enormously long losing streak. Alex Riley? Really?

 

[Mr Silver]

Yeah, it's got to be Riley given that he was in the midst of a huge push, even gaining a clean pinfall victory over Miz (a former WWE Champion) and then... Nothing, he just seemed to disappear and resurfaced later as a mainstray on NXT and occasionly as enhancement talent on Raw.

 

[Admiral_Young]

You have no idea how much I disagree with that, and it isn't just due to my Miz love either. A huge push? They have repacked him (lamely I might add) several times since the feud with Miz and he has done nothing, except get over a bit in NX and I wouldn't call that an accomplish.I know you don't like Miz or whatever Admiral M but seriously....how can it not be Miz? No one in the company has fallen lower than him last year, he was like Sheamus. He's starting to win again but only just. Alex Riley would not even be considered a superstar by even the dumbest mark IMO. I know we aren't going to agree on this but surely there are others besides Riley?


EDIT: I apologize if I seem heated at all...that pick just totally flew me for a loop!

Here is mine, Note there is no mention of TNA! It is because I simply have given up on it.

Best Male Wrestler: CM Punk (Daniel Bryan would be my second choice)
Best Female Wrestler: Beth Phoenix
Best Face: CM Punk
Best Heel: Big Johnny!
Best Tag Team: None
Comeback of the Year: The Rock (followed by Sheamus)
Most Improved: Zack Ryder (Thanks Admiral M Lol)
Commentator of the Year: Jim Ross
Non-Wrestling Personality: The Muppets
Best Story Line: CM Punk threatening to leave WWE with WWE Title
Best Talker: CM Punk (The Miz being second)
Match of the Year: CM Punk Vs John Cena (c) Money in the Bank 2011
Event of the Year: Money in the Bank 2011 (followed by Survivor Series 2011)
Best Promotion: WWE
Biggest Missed Opportunity: The Conspiracy Angle (damn should have been the return of the new world order!)
Biggest Demotion: The Miz
Worst Wrestler: Kevin Nash
Worst Match: Kevin Nash Vs Triple H
Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic: Social Network Promotion (thanks for reminding me about this Admrial M )

 

[Mr Silver]

You seem to forget that Miz has retained a decent spot in the company. I mean sure, he isn't WWE Champion and he has gone from headlining Wrestlemania to participating in throwaway matches, but he's still working at the upper mid-card level.

He spent the first few PPV's losing to Cena, but everyone loses to Cena at some point and that isn't exactly a character killer for him, given that he took the Wrestlemania victory and was given the opportunity to look strong against the face of the company. He then loses to Alex Riley in a very popular feud, but since Riley is forgotten about it doesn't particulary matter that Miz lost. He then forms a tag team with R Truth and they are pushed into a top feud against Triple H and CM Punk - they even gain a victory over them. It's then that Miz takes out both John Morrison and R Truth in the context of a storyline and he is then inserted into the WWE Championship match at TLC.

Let's not forget that Miz was in the Royal Rumble for the longest time, was the last person eliminated in the Raw Elimination Chamber and he also remains undefeated at Wrestlemania where he was the one who took the pinfall.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I haven't forgotten anything. Just because they've kept Mike around because he is a good talker and used him to promote the company doesn't change the fact that he has been wallowing around since he had the title stripped from him. There is no question that he is being punished. This seems to be the consensus with the dirt sheets as well. He is working where he is because they know they don't have very many alternatives and he can work the mic. I'm also aware that if he doesn't shape up soon with his antics behind the stage it will get worse for him. I have read that his and Truth's feud will start up again. I also see your points about Riley but disagree with them. I know we both won't budge on this subject so let's move on

This is what I like about these types of lists, they can generate very different and passionate opinions! It'll be interesting to see what others have on their lists.

 

[scnj]

Watching Smackdown. God, I love Daniel Bryan's promo skills. AJ's pretty good with the reactions too.

 

[Admiral_Young]

AJ's actually improved I think since they first started charting her out for this gimmick.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Actually, these two have me questioning if they are really dating when their on the road.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I've questioned that from the start to be honest lol.

 

[Defcon]

Bryan is dating one of the Bellas if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Mr Silver]

I'll move on from this once I've made a final few points...

There is no question that he is being punished.

It's possible that he is being punished, but his level of punishment is hardly severe. Need I remind you that his losing streak lasted less than a month?

This seems to be the consensus with the dirt sheets as well.

Of which only one or two are reliable sources and many of the reports have been conflicting.

He is working where he is because they know they don't have very many alternatives and he can work the mic.

Nonsense, his mic skills are above average at best and have severely declined since his pairing with R Truth last year.

I actually preferred him when he was United States and Tag Team champion. I can't stand Miz's current style of wrestling, it's slow paced and boring and doesn't follow any kind of modern build. He uses the rear chinlock way too often and alternates between restholds or slow recovery moves that are just not believable coming from a guy of his stature. Then you have moves that look impressive, but take too long to execute such as his corner clothesline where he sits on the middle rope for an eternity following it's execution or his low angle DDT which takes longer for him to go for the pinfall than the actual execution of the move.

 

[Mr Silver]

Yeah, Daniel Bryan is dating one of the Bella Twins and there was talk of having a storyline involving DB, AJ and the Bella Twins.

I actually thought that the pairing of DB and AJ would be horrendous, but they actually have a decent amount of chemistry and have worked really well on an initially awful storyline. Danielson has always been underrated on the mic because his wrestling skills have defined him in the business, one of best things about him joining WWE is that he has finally had the chance to showcase his mic skills on a international stage.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Moving on...I'm kind of surprised that creative hasn't decided to do anything with the Twins (how I love them so!!! ) and Zack since the three of them basically twitter flirtered with each other for several months. Not sure if they are still doing (I rarely check my account) so, instead we got the Eve story line. Using Zack to turn Eve heel? Also I guess the Kane/Cena proved to be a non thing since Cena is still Cena and Kane has moved on to Orton for some reason. I told you guys that program would not be a prolonged one or have any impact whatsoever. Unless they follow up on it some how (which I doubt).

 

[barnaclelapse]

They won't follow up on Cena/Kane, and that's a shame. I saw a lot of potential in that feud, and I was hoping WWE would prove me wrong about the likelihood of doing absolutely nothing worth a damn with it.

Good Kane/Orton match on Smackdown though.

And I'm inclined to agree with your picks for best/worst of 2011, Admiral, although I don't think I'll go along with your picks for worst wrestler/worst match of the year. I definitely agree with the most disgusting promotional tactic.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Raw for the first time in a long time should be quite interesting tonight as we get the aftermath and follow up to Brock's huge return last week as the People Power era continues!