General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Mr Silver]

Didn't the WWE hire Hollywood writers with TV experience but no wrestling knowledge in the early 2000's to write the shows?

They still do, and it's not exactly the best thing for them to do in some ways. The way I see it, WWE wants to move away from classic wrestling cliches and the only way they can do that is by hiring writers that have dramatic experience.

It would be perfect if these writers were die hard wrestling fans that also had experience working in a creative wrestling setting, but the sad truth is that most television writers will take a career in Hollywood over a career in WWE because it's far more prestigious, probably pays more in the long run and can lead to bigger and better opportunities. The writers that have been in Hollywood and are now in WWE would very likely not be in WWE if there were suitable jobs available for them in Hollywood.

So WWE needs experienced dramatic television writers who are familiar with their company, product and writing in a wrestling creative team. It's possible that WWE hopes that these "Hollywood" writers will grow into the WWE setting and eventually understand the system with the help of the existing creative team members - thereby they will eventually have the aforementioned dramatic television writers who are familiar with pro wrestling, WWE and writing in a wrestling creative team.

It's pretty similar to FCW and WWE's hiring of blank canvas talent (those with minimal experience or unknowns) so they can train them in the WWE way and make them WWE stars whilst taking the best bits of who they are and erasing the things that they don't want like previous in-ring names, looks and gimmicks.

@ Admiral_Young: Freddie Prinze Jr. is actually a die hard fan of professional wrestling and WWE, in his case it was WWE doing something right.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm aware of Freddy's fandom, that wasn't the point of why I was bringing him out, and I don't see how it was WWE was doing "something right" in that case. They might as well hire all us fan boys who are huge fans and have ideas LOL.

You know it's a sad state of affairs when we're having a passionate debate about something other than what's going on television LOL.

 

[Mr Silver]

I don't see how it was WWE was doing "something right" in that case. They might as well hire all us fan boys who are huge fans and have ideas LOL.

OTC, the fact that he's a fan boy along with years of experience in film and TV as an actor, producer, writer, etc made him perfect for the job within the new direction that WWE is aiming for.

It's not a bad thing trying to add a realistic and more dramatic dimension than just two guys wrestling because they are polar opposites personality wise (face and heel). The concept of storytelling is something often overlooked in wrestling and when it is put into play, it results in stellar matches (Taker vs Triple H at WM28 anyone?)

 

[Admiral_Young]

Looks like Vicki is going to be Interim GM next week...are we back to the rotating GM's? I'm guessing permanent General Managers won't be announced until the 100--errrrrrrr 1000th episode of Raw.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/quicknews/article_62614.shtml

 

[Sheep]

You know it's a sad state of affairs when we're having a passionate debate about something other than what's going on television LOL.

I don't mind wrestling related discussions focusing on the bigger picture. There are only so many ways we can say Bryan and Punk are the best things in the WWE today, the Tensai gimmick sucks, and how long are they going to have Ryback squash high schoolers?

 

[Defcon]

Looks like Vicki is going to be Interim GM next week...are we back to the rotating GM's?

Why are you so surprised, Foley announced that there would be rotating GMs (all former GMs or other authority figures) until permanent ones are found by the BoD.

 

[Mr Silver]

I don't mind wrestling related discussions focusing on the bigger picture. There are only so many ways we can say Bryan and Punk are the best things in the WWE today, the Tensai gimmick sucks, and how long are they going to have Ryback squash high schoolers?

Precisely,

I have a tendency to rile up people by arguing favourably or alternatively for unpopular booking decisions. The "IWC" began as a joke about the increasing frequency of "armchair" bookers that began appearing on message boards all over the internet. The initials are a play upon the three letter initials of several wrestling promotions. The ironic thing about "IWC" is that some fans have adopted it as a symbol of pride, when actually it's nothing more than a social subculture where everyone MUST share similar opinions or risk alienation. Considering many of these opinions are based upon just taking things said by dirt sheet writers with reputations like Dave Meltzer as gospel, without actually understand that these views are Dave Meltzer's opinions and not fact or the standards that any true fan of wrestling should acknowledge.

Debate is a key element to any fandom with passionate members (I assume we're all passionate about pro wrestling, otherwise there wouldn't be about 10 of us making several hundreds posts in these threads!) and like Sheep said, looking towards the bigger picture.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Defcon I didn't Raw. I have feeling Vince is going to force feed Rybeck down our throats no matter what. The reaction to Tensei has been luke warm to dead IMO. I liked the A-Train chants at the start but those seem to have trailed off.

 

[Sheep]

Rumors have it that Jericho will be returning as a face. To that I say: THANK GOODNESS.

His last heel run didn't do much for me. Yes, he was sadistic and dickish but IMO the entertainment factor just wasn't there. It felt like he was going through the motions with CM Punk even if they did put on some entertaining matches.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^ That was my impression too. That's why in the end I never expected him to stick around much passed Mania. Between his tour dates with Fozzy and the fact that he appeared to be in the same mindset that he was in before he was 'fired' back in 2005.

While I can't say I prefer him as a face, he feels he constantly needs to reinvent himself. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Admiral_Young]

If that is true, then I'll be one happy Jerichoholic. JeriTroll was fine at first, and I was marking out to him, but then they ended up not doing anything with him at all.

 

[Mr Silver]

If that is true, then I'll be one happy Jerichoholic. JeriTroll was fine at first, and I was marking out to him, but then they ended up not doing anything with him at all.

The first time he came out and did that extended "so happy to be here" and then leaving without saying anything was one of the most epic things to come out of WWE this year. I just have no idea where it wrong, actually tell a lie I do and people might not like it.

I think Jericho and Punk were mismatched at that point, the feud just seemed really rushed, as if it was something that had to happen because some fans had demanded it for years, rather than teasing conflict and trying to build chemistry (a'la any long running feud/rivalry in pro wrestling). There was something just "not Jericho" about him constantly going on about the apparent substance abuse problems in Punk's family and trying to turn Punk into an alcoholic by showering him in booze every week.

In my opinion, Jericho is at his best when he's in cocky mode and playing subtle mind games that aren't in your face and personal like bringing up shit (which may or may not be true) about Punk's family in an effort to unnerve him. Rather, it would have made more sense to have Jericho come out a week after earning his place in the Elimination Chamber and shit all over everyone else in it apart from Punk - whom he wouldn't actually mention. Jericho would continue this non-acknowledgement of Punk up until the Raw before EC where he would talk about how Punk essentially assumed his identity and all the other stuff about Chris Jericho wannabes. He'd go on to say that since the real Y2J is here, there is no need to bother with second rate stand in's (or something to that effect), cue Punk coming out and dropping pipe bombs, etc. The segment would end with a staredown.

At EC Jericho would pick up the win by last eliminating Punk through some devious and heel building method, say that someone comes to ringside that Punk doesn't really want to see (kayfabe) like an ex-girlfriend (played by one of the FCW Divas) whom he dumped for some apparently malicious reason. This would give Jericho the opportunity to lay Punk out with a weapon or something and then celebrate in the ring with the mysterious woman revealing that they had been in cahoots.

I think rather than involving Punk's family, they could have used mock characters.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I don't think Punk and Jericho were mismatched or really that their program was mishandled. There just wasn't really any real point or ultimate result from it. Punk was already enormously over as WWE Champion (even if he wasn't champion he was over) there was no need to put Punk over. I'm still disappointed Jericho didn't get a title win personally, even if he were to drop it back to Punk. Their 28 match was pretty awesome but I dunno, the whole program just fell flat to me without having any real outcome.

Maybe if Jericho had a program against Daniel Bryan when he was World Champion instead of having one with Sheamus (let Sheamus wait) that would have been HUGE. It's a tough thing though. There aren't too many guys that Jericho could have worked with to put over that needed it.

 

[DigificWriter]

If the WWE hadn't been forced to suspend Chris Jericho for PR purposes, he would've continued to have been booked as one of the WWE's top heels because, even in losing to CM Punk twice and coming up short in the Fatal Four Way World Heavyweight title match. The thing about Jericho, especially at this stage of his career, is that he doesn't have to be booked to win matches in order to keep his spot as a top-tier guy and a bonafide legend and future WWE Hall-of-Famer.

The people who are deriding Jericho's return earlier this year as being pointless because we never got any explanation as to what his hype videos were about completely missed the point of them. As per Jericho's own admission, they weren't intended to have any deeper symbolic meaning or point other than to hype up his return in a fun and unique manner in keeping with the way he'd come into the company and the way he'd returned to it in 2007. As he explained in an interview a month or two ago, the whole 'end of the world as you know it' concept for the videos was a suggestion from Vince McMahon, and one that he ran with because he liked the idea and because it was a way to play on the whole furor/argument/debate over whether or not the world is going to come to an end in December of this year. The actual imagry and content of the videos were not supposed to be an indication of the substance of his return, nor were they meant to have any deeper symbolic meaning.

As far as Jericho returning from his PR-purposes suspension as a face goes, the thing that people need to realize is that, even if he does come back as a fan-favorite, we're not going to be seeing a return to his previous face persona; we might see him bring back a catchphrase or two, but, in terms of substance, any future face persona he adopts will be willfully different, new, and fresh because, as he's said repeatedly before, he is the kind of person who believes in never doing the same thing twice.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I get all that, and I get the JeriTroll stuff...doesn't mean it was no less disappointing to me. The program against Orton that was introduced prior to the suspension, might have been the most interesting thing Jericho did in his return. I wonder if they will revisit this since Orton has professed to wanting to return to a heel (he admitted this to a fan's question on twitter a few weeks ago). I think I mentioned when Chris did return that I felt he had come back to work with the guys he wanted to, and pretty much had the freedom to do what he wanted. It'll be interesting to see what happens when he comes back on Monday. Not that I can see Raw or anything still. Sigh.

 

[DigificWriter]

AY, I'm wondering what, exactly, about the Jericho/Punk program was disappointing to you because, from where I stand, neither man lost anything at all from its outcome. If anything, Punk became even more of a bonafide main eventer than he already was, especially in the eyes of some, by beating Chris.

If they do eventually revisit the Jericho/Orton thing that they started, I don't personally think it would happen until/unless Orton is a face and Jericho is a heel due to Chris' stated preference for not doing the same thing twice. The last time Chris and Randy feuded, Chris was a face and Randy a heel, and, if their feud hadn't been aborted by the WWE having to suspend Chris for PR purposes and Randy getting in trouble for violating the Wellness policy, it would've been different from their previous feud because their positions in terms of alignment would've been reversed and thus would not have been contrary to Chris' stated preference, but if they do the feud with Chris as a face and Randy as a heel, they'd be repeating themselves.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I've stated before...I thought JeriTroll should have won the WWE Title at Wrestlemania 28 from Punk...the heat that would have drawn...and then have Punk take it back the next month in his home town. I know people have disagreed with me, that's fine, it's just what I personally was looking for from the program. I understand why it didn't happen.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I'm a fan of both Jericho and Punk and was 100% expecting their WM match to end differently than it did. However, while I was surprised by the decision to keep the WWE title on Punk, I don't think it ended up hurting Jericho in any way, shape, or form, or that it ended up making their feud pointless.

 

[Mr Silver]

I don't think Punk and Jericho were mismatched or really that their program was mishandled.

I saw them as being mismatched because of the way the program was handled. It just felt way too rushed, as if WWE were just throwing it into the mix at Wrestlemania, rather than invest time and effort into the feud.

Anyone can say what they like about it, because it's their opinion, but I think some fans are just tolerant and just cutting their losses because at least they got a Jericho/Punk feud, which is comparable to being happy about a crappy movie because two good actors are in it. As a fan I feel that the feud was severely lacking of depth and it would seem that this was down to the creative team being focused elsewhere.

 

[Admiral_Young]

This is interesting. Beth Phoenix says she wants to compete for the World Title.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/quicknews/article_62707.shtml

Chyna of course became WWE Intercontinental Champion when she beat Jeff Jarrett at No Mercy on Oct 17, 1999. I remember Jericho talking about Chyna in his book...but I think I'd like to see Beth compete for the title. Don't know if creative would actually do something like this, but I'd like to see it.