Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[eschaton]

Plenty of Star Trek stories have involve existential crises.

Absolutely, but it's not frequent in TV Trek. TOS directly threatened Earth less than five times (The Alternative Factor and The City on the Edge of Forever are the only ones I can think of offhand). TNG waited until Best of Both Worlds. DS9 and ENT had existential threats to Earth, but only one per series. VOY dabbled in them with the Borg and Species 8472, but week-to-week, crises were appropriately scaled as involving the ship and crew.

And what do you mean 'quick succession? We have to wait at least 12 months between seasons.

Imagine if the DS9 writers decided to solve the Dominion War in the third season, then introduced some new antagonist (Pah Wraiths, Breen, etc) every season thereafter. Do you think that would have been better than what we got? Don't you think people would be bored with the "boy who cried wolf" aspect - and the artificiality of the single-season conflicts - by the end of the series?

I mean, I know the idea that each season arc is separate and involves its own "bad guy" goes back to Buffy (though I've personally never seen the show). But speaking personally, it just seems way too formulaic to me to get invested.

 

[Rasmussen]

I tried to write up several paragraphs of why I didnt like this show in the end.

I deleted it, because it wouldnt help anything. Its there and I will probably watch the third season in hopes it will be better. Though my expectations are at their lowest. Watching Discovery from season 1 to the end of season 2 here was painful.

 

[Tuskin38]

Wow, Star Trek Online managed to get Jason Issacs back as Lorca.

https://www.pcgamer.com/star-trek-onlines-rise-of-discovery-update-brings-back-captain-lorca/

 

[Alan Roi]

Absolutely, but it's not frequent in TV Trek. TOS directly threatened Earth less than five times (The Alternative Factor and The City on the Edge of Forever are the only ones I can think of offhand). TNG waited until Best of Both Worlds. DS9 and ENT had existential threats to Earth, but only one per series. VOY dabbled in them with the Borg and Species 8472, but week-to-week, crises were appropriately scaled as involving the ship and crew.

Imagine if the DS9 writers decided to solve the Dominion War in the third season, then introduced some new antagonist (Pah Wraiths, Breen, etc) every season thereafter. Do you think that would have been better than what we got? Don't you think people would be bored with the "boy who cried wolf" aspect - and the artificiality of the single-season conflicts - by the end of the series?

I mean, I know the idea that each season arc is separate and involves its own "bad guy" goes back to Buffy (though I've personally never seen the show). But speaking personally, it just seems way too formulaic to me to get invested.

Nomad was destroying whole planets with billions of people on them. So was the Doomsday Machine. The Space Amoeba was about to split and threatened all life in the galaxy. In Balance of Terror it was suggested that if the Romulan ship got away another devastating war would occur, and there was a similar threat with Errand of Mercy, Operation Annihilate was another existential threat, the parasites were viewed as a threat to the entire federation. Like City on the Edge of Forever, Assignment:Earth was another past based existential threat. And that was just 2 seasons. The other series dealt with similar threats over their series.

Not sure how it matters if this is an overarching story, or one or more discrete episodes in a season. Its still an existential threat that has to be dealt with by the crew. I get you want these threats dealt in 45 minutes or less, but doing so is even less realistic, IMO.

 

[Alan Roi]

Unless the Federation and galaxy hit a galactic "dark ages".
Think the fall of the Roman Empire. Think the Galactic Empire in Asimov's Foundation falling.

Or even worse... think Sleeper or Idiocracy.

 

[eschaton]

Nomad was destroying whole planets with billions of people on them. So was the Doomsday Machine. The Space Amoeba was about to split and threatened all life in the galaxy. In Balance of Terror it was suggested that if the Romulan ship got away another devastating war would occur, and there was a similar threat with Errand of Mercy, Operation Annihilate was another existential threat, the parasites were viewed as a threat to the entire federation. Like City on the Edge of Forever, Assignment:Earth was another past based existential threat. And that was just 2 seasons. The other series dealt with similar threats over their series.

Most of these crises didn't immediately threaten Earth, even if eventually they would. This is key, because Starfleet has an unknown amount of ships during this period, but we are led to believe it's in the dozens or hundreds. By dealing with "local" crises which may eventually flare up rather than "quadrant" crises, we can imagine there are other ships out there getting into adventures of exactly the same caliber as the Enterprise. The TOS world seems big and wide open. Every series since then has progressively closed in the Trek universe though, making it seem smaller and more self-referential due to the desire to make the main cast into these epic, heroic figures.

Not sure how it matters if this is an overarching story, or one or more discrete episodes in a season. Its still an existential threat that has to be dealt with by the crew. I get you want these threats dealt in 45 minutes or less, but doing so is even less realistic, IMO.

No, I don't want the threats dealt with in 45 minutes. I would prefer one of the following.

• A cohesive multi-season arc which steadily moves the show forward (ala Game of Thrones or The Expanse)
• Longer-form storytelling which takes exactly as long as is needed in order to tell the story in question. This means if the core of the season 3 arc takes up only 9 out of the 14 episodes, just film it that way and find a way to tell a few standalones or mini-arcs as well.

But my bigger point is that the "Earth/the Federation/the entire friggin multiverse is in danger!" is a well they've gone to too many times. When I watch an episodic show, I don't want to see the same plot arc repeated indefinitely. It's one reason Voyager got tiresome - there were basically only three plots across the entire show. I'd love if the third season, for example, was a high-stakes story about recreating the fallen federation, but mostly focused on diplomacy and building trust between very antagonistic factions. It would be something different, and variety is the spice of life.

 

[fireproof78]

Imagine if the DS9 writers decided to solve the Dominion War in the third season, then introduced some new antagonist (Pah Wraiths, Breen, etc) every season thereafter. Do you think that would have been better than what we got? Don't you think people would be bored with the "boy who cried wolf" aspect - and the artificiality of the single-season conflicts - by the end of the series?

Depends on how it was done.

 

[DaveyNY]

I tried to write up several paragraphs of why I didn't like this show in the end.

I deleted it, because it wouldn't help anything. Its there and I will probably watch the third season in hopes it will be better. Though my expectations are at their lowest. Watching Discovery from season 1 to the end of season 2 here was painful.

Wow... such masochistic tendency's will do you no good, except perhaps with a lovely Mistress.

I just don't get it, why do folks torture themselves this way?

The only thing I've ever done in my life that hurt as badly as apparently watching DISCOVERY does to some folks, I actually enjoyed.
But that's a tale for another time and place.

 

[Discofan]

Or even worse.......Idiocracy.

"Idiocracy" has been fulfilled the day a twittering fat fool got to the highest office of...

 

[Discofan]

Wow... such masochistic tendency's will do you no good, except perhaps with a lovely Mistress.

I just don't get it, why do folks torture themselves this way?

The only thing I've ever done in my life that hurt as badly as apparently watching DISCOVERY does to some folks, I actually enjoyed.
But that's a tale for another time and place.

TMI

 

[fireproof78]

I just don't get it, why do folks torture themselves this way?

This is the question that constantly staggers my mind. The way DSC gets discussed you would think the characters were targeting the viewer specifically to torture them through brain waves or something.

Why watch it?

 

[SolarisOne]

but mostly focused on diplomacy and building trust between very antagonistic factions.

Exactly what Andromeda was originally supposed to be.

 

[ITDUDE]

This is the question that constantly staggers my mind. The way DSC gets discussed you would think the characters were targeting the viewer specifically to torture them through brain waves or something.

Why watch it?

I don't think there are many on the forums that actually torture themselves to watch Discovery. That is, they hate every second of it, but watch it regardless for... reasons?
I think majority of the people here fall into two camps:
Those who absolutely love Discovery, everything it stands to offer, those who automatically grade it a 10 every single time without watching, those who think it has no flaws whatsoever (shippers) and also..
Those who find some flaws and come here to discuss it on daily basis (critics), those grading it in the range 3 to 9 on regular basis maybe with an occasional 10.
I don't think we have anyone that really really hates the show and every aspect of it (automatically grading it 1-2), but come here every day anyway (haters)

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think there are many on the forums that actually torture themselves to watch Discovery. That is, they hate every second of it, but watch it regardless for... reasons?

Sorry, speaking more broadly, not just on this forum.

 

[Alan Roi]

Sorry, speaking more broadly, not just on this forum.

Same reason why people used to stand on streetcorners shouting at the top of their lungs, I suspect (At least those who have a passion for ALLCAPS).

 

[BillJ]

Wow, Star Trek Online managed to get Jason Issacs back as Lorca.

https://www.pcgamer.com/star-trek-onlines-rise-of-discovery-update-brings-back-captain-lorca/

Wow. That game still looks like it runs on the PS2.

 

[Tuskin38]

Wow. That game still looks like it runs on the PS2.

PS2 could not render anything that looks remotely like that.

It's also running on an engine that's over 10 years old.

 

[BillJ]

PS2 could not render anything that looks remotely like that.

It's also running on an engine that's over 10 years old.

It looks like ass. It also plays like ass. It plays like a twenty year old game.

 

[Harpsichord]

It looks like ass. It also plays like ass. It plays like a twenty year old game.

Now you're being unfair to 20-year-old games! Plenty of them were much better than STO!

 

[eschaton]

Now you're being unfair to 20-year-old games! Plenty of them were much better than STO!

**dusts off copy of Baldur's Gate II"*