Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Doc Mugatu]

I'm familiar with Nerdrotic. I'm not seeing how Burnham can become Captain by the end of the season. If Pike goes, Saru turns out to be unfit, and Ariam does as well, then maybe that gives Burnham an opening, but I can't see her as being more than Acting Captain.

Don't forget the Kelpian thread this season. Saru could easily end up no longer Starfleet. He has been getting subtly more aggressive and "independent." Considering Ariam's currently questionable status she may likewise not survive the season. Also don't forget Starfleet's tendency of jumping protocol. Again, 6 episodes left and several relevant strings still dangling. There's is a very definite road map to Burnham's captaincy by season's end. Not saying it will but that there you go.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think Burnham will be promoted to First Officer but Cornwell will promote Number One to Captain of Discovery upon Pike's recommendation when he goes back to the Enterprise, and Spock will take Number One's place as First Officer there.

Those are my guesses. But we'll see.

 

[XCV330]

Be a shame for Saru to be stepped over like that.

 

[Succubint]

Ooh I like that idea, Lord Garth. It'd be nice to mix it up with a woman in the chair again. I really enjoyed RR in The Librarians as an ex FBI type of agent. I think she'd have the skills to portray someone ready for command.

Don't forget the Kelpian thread this season. Saru could easily end up no longer Starfleet. He has been getting subtly more aggressive and "independent."

While this is true, I think that it's more likely that Saru will have to go through an adjustment period as part of his new arc. The impression I got from Doug Jones in his Ready Room interview was that his change in behavior is like a teen suddenly turning 18 and acting out a bit until he settles down and finds a balance between the old and new aspects of himself. So he's going to be encountering some behavioral speed bumps, of course, but eventually will learn to adapt . This was also the thread of conflict in episode 6 conversations between him and the Ba'ul. The Ba'ul believe that the Kelpians can never change or evolve past their primal predatory instincts. Saru and Siranna both insist that they deserve to be given the chance to try. While it would be interesting to explore a cautionary tale which ends in Saru unable to overcome this new challenge and becoming his own worst nightmare (so to speak), I would prefer a different overall message winning out. He's the refugee analogue. IMO, he needs a "becomes a success, rising from nothing" story, not a "welp, he really was a savage brute that should have been exterminated all along" tragedy.

 

[wissaboo]

Argh I'm two episodes behind!!!!

 

[Doc Mugatu]

While this is true, I think that it's more likely that Saru will have to go through an adjustment period as part of his new arc. ...

I guess it depends upon whether they want Discovery to ultimately be just another juvenile sci-fi series or if they want to take it up notch (as Izzy Mandelbaum would say). The Kelpian's flipping out against the Federation would make for a great cliffhanger (especially with Saru as their warlord). It could be, if done maturely, up there with the Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger! And the name of the game is drama and "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." If the Kelpian thread unfolds as sedate as some want then it would be an unfortunate waste of a promising setup.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I'm familiar with Nerdrotic. I'm not seeing how Burnham can become Captain by the end of the season. If Pike goes, Saru turns out to be unfit, and Ariam does as well, then maybe that gives Burnham an opening, but I can't see her as being more than Acting Captain.

I'm not sure if Airiam is still second officer. Burnham got her commission back and outranks Airiam, and was running a briefing earlier that Airiam attended (although that may have been due to Burnham's position as Science Officer).

We haven't seen Burnham take temporary command, but that may happen at the end of the season or the next. It could be, though, that part of the deal that gave Burnham her rank back required her to stay out of the chain of command. It's not like her mutiny has been excused, just overlooked.

 

[Succubint]

I guess it depends upon whether they want Discovery to ultimately be just another juvenile sci-fi series or if they want to take it up notch (as Izzy Mandelbaum would say). The Kelpian's flipping out against the Federation would make for a great cliffhanger (especially with Saru as their warlord). It could be, if done maturely, up there with the Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger! And the name of the game is drama and "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." If the Kelpian thread unfolds as sedate as some want then it would be an unfortunate waste of a promising setup.

Or it could be an inspiring tale of an alien refugee overcoming his own unique personal challenges, when faced with prejudice and other external obstacles. I wouldn't call that juvenile in the current real world climate where outsiders and alien immigrants are being demonized with impunity.

Perhaps the writers will take it different way, turn him into a monstrous villain who fails to overcome his biological impulses. They have the right to take the story in that direction. But, I think, a lot of people who have identified with Saru and his struggles with identity, self doubt and leadership up to this point would be saddened, not satisfied by that kind of development. YMMV.

 

[Gilora]

Burnham should never get a command for the same reason that, 100 years later, Worf will never get one -- as Sisko told him.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Or it could be an inspiring tale of an alien refugee overcoming his own unique personal challenges, when faced with prejudice and other external obstacles. I wouldn't call that juvenile in the current real world climate where outsiders and alien immigrants are being demonized with impunity.

Perhaps the writers will take it different way, turn him into a monstrous villain who fails to overcome his biological impulses. They have the right to take the story in that direction. But, I think, a lot of people who have identified with Saru and his struggles with identity, self doubt and leadership up to this point would be saddened, not satisfied by that kind of development. YMMV.

Or they could do both. Start my way and end it your way. That wouldn't be so bad and it wouldn't waste such a potentially harrowing storyline. The Kelpian build up has them being a terrifying race. I remember the introduction of Species 8472 in Voyager. They were downright scary. The Kelpians could be the Discovery's Borg or Species 8472. I would just hate for that possibility squandered.

 

[Succubint]

That's understandable! I accept your proposal. We can have the best of both worlds, then. Ba-dum-tish.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm not sure if Airiam is still second officer. Burnham got her commission back and outranks Airiam, and was running a briefing earlier that Airiam attended (although that may have been due to Burnham's position as Science Officer).

I thought they were both Lieutenant Commanders. I don't think Ariam should be removed from Second Officer Position without cause. What we have coming up might be cause, but it's also possible that whatever went wrong with Ariam will be fixed and she'll go back to normal.

We haven't seen Burnham take temporary command, but that may happen at the end of the season or the next. It could be, though, that part of the deal that gave Burnham her rank back required her to stay out of the chain of command. It's not like her mutiny has been excused, just overlooked.

Could be. I keep going under the assumption that Burnham will eventually be Captain. It's possible that's a mistake for me to do because it's what's "expected" but Captain Georgiou also mentions that Burnham should get her own command someday. The writers were either foreshadowing in "A Vulcan Hello" or they were setting up a tragic situation where Georgiou mentions what could happen and that's put in direct contrast with happens later on the episode and show's what Georgiou said about Burnham having her own command is something that's never to be. It could be looked at both ways. Which I like.

Burnham should never get a command for the same reason that, 100 years later, Worf will never get one -- as Sisko told him.

So that's why we're not getting the Worf Series.

 

[Lord Garth]

The impression I got from Doug Jones in his Ready Room interview was that his change in behavior is like a teen suddenly turning 18 and acting out a bit until he settles down and finds a balance between the old and new aspects of himself.

18. All the freedom of being an adult but none of the responsibility. When doing stuff just because "I'm 18!" was reason enough to do it... so basically being 18, at least for me, wasn't really being an "adult" at all.

By the same token: I wonder if Saru being fearless is not really being fearless at all. What if he has fear but it manifests itself differently when he learns how to understand it without his threat ganglia letting him know he should be afraid?

The biggest thing I think that would nab Saru at this point is doing something rash. If he regains some of the mental safeguards that the rest of us have, then he won't be as apt to act so rash.

I think Pike and Starfleet's concerns with Saru would be that they'd want a First Officer to be someone whose behavior they can predict. Especially if he's only one step away from Captaincy. If they can't predict his behavior, they don't know if he's a good choice for Command anymore, so that doubt would be enough to jeopardize his position as First Officer if there's a costly incident that Saru's not having threat ganglia anymore causes. I feel like the fight between Culber and Tyler might be foreshadowing Saru not taking action when he should've. And a more serious situation to the ship or crew itself later on would be more costly.

Then it would come down to Ariam and Burnham. Burnham as First Officer experience and Ariam doesn't, so that might be enough to give Burnham a one-up on Ariam and leave Ariam where she is as Second Officer.

 

[DaveyNY]

Completely off topic .... but...

@Lord Garth ... I don't know why, but for some really silly reason every time I catch your new Avatar pic out of the corner of my eye, it reminds me of this...

I think I've been playing Marvel's Puzzle Quest waay too much lately.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Wolverine looks kind of like a skunk.

 

[DaveyNY]

Wolverine looks kind of like a skunk.

Yeah, the Daken character is really, really weird.
(no reflection on Lord Garth though. It's just the coloring of his pic that catches my eye for some resaon)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wolverine looks kind of like a skunk.

Wolverine was dead.

That's his son Daken.

Who is also Wolverine.

Took over his daddy's book for a while.

 

[Lord Garth]

Completely off topic .... but...

@Lord Garth ... I don't know why, but for some really silly reason every time I catch your new Avatar pic out of the corner of my eye, it reminds me of this...

"Old" avatar actually. This is a picture of me from 2002. I decided use to only old avatars from the month of March, to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of TrekBBS (sticking with stuff from 1999 to 2005), see this thread here, only problem was, I was using Peace Signs mostly back then. I was moderator of the TOS Forum when we started using avatars so I wanted something '60s-themed and it was my comment on all the ENT/TNZ/MA Warfare going on back then, but times have changed...

... and it looks kind of odd when I'm defending DSC full-force from some basher, and then I have a peace sign. And I didn't feel like having peace signs all month. So... I split the difference and thought, "Here's a good pic from during that time, so I'll stick with that for a bit!"

Luckily I haven't aged much, so it still works.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Wolverine was dead.

That's his son Daken.

Who is also Wolverine.

Took over his daddy's book for a while.

Thanks for the clarification.

Wolverine's son looks kind of like a skunk, then.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Burnham should never get a command for the same reason that, 100 years later, Worf will never get one -- as Sisko told him.

Sisko said "probably", not definitely. Since Sisko was understanding, I would imagine he put in a supportive word in the file on Worf's behalf. Since Worf's saved the Earth and Federation multiple times over and Starfleet is pretty forgiving of malfeasance when you do that, I imagine they'll give him another chance. Also, Jadzia is no longer around and Worf is no longer married to someone under his command, so the conflict no longer exists.

SISKO: As your captain, it is my duty to tell you that you made the wrong choice. I don't think Starfleet will file any formal charges. Even a secret court martial would run the risk of revealing too much about their intelligence operations. But this will go into your service record, and to be completely honest, you probably won't be offered a command on your own after this.
WORF: I understand.
SISKO: I have also issued new orders. You and Jadzia are not to be assigned to a mission on your own ever again. And one last thing. As a man who had a wife, if Jennifer had been lying in that clearing I wouldn't have left her either.​