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Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

I sure hope it isn't me.:confused:

No, don't worry, it's not you. I said too much earlier, but don't worry. You're good.

The main point I wanted to make -- and I should've stuck to just that -- is at the end of the day I don't care if someone loves the show or hates it. It doesn't matter. Like @Vger23 said, opposite camps shouldn't see each other as The Enemy over some TV show... no matter how much we happen to like that particular show. ;)

If there's something else going on, then it depends what the something else is. But over just a TV show? Definitely not.
 
But here's my difference with Discovery, they made conscious decisions to deliberately introduce glaring inconsistencies when they didn't have to and didn't necessarily contribute to the story: those stupid Klingon ships instead of the the D7 (or even a recognizable variation), the look of the Klingons even, and the uniforms
I really don't mean to beat this dead Targ but what about the ships is so off putting? Even the Klingon make up I'll grant is frustrating, but the ships?

Same with the uniforms. I respect the desire to have the TOS style uniforms, and I would prefer that as well. But, again, it has happened before so not sure how that demonstrates disrespect or irreverence or "not giving a flip." :shrug:
 
The reason I use fanboys here is frankly because, this forum has a bizarre fanboyish attitude towards Discovery that I don't even find on boards like /r/Startrekdiscovery where you find far more reasonable discussion and criticism of the show being discussed.
There is a need for Discovery fans here to constantly shit over the rest of Star Trek and Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek, mock and deride people who think that vision is important to the series which happens constantly (and don't tell me it doesn't, I've seen countless posts of people posting "But Genes utopian vision!" with rolling eyes and laughter emojis), constantly strawman and ignore actual legitimate criticisms of the show and then just brush everything away with "It's not 1960 anymore it's 2019, stop living under a rock! why would you want sets made of cardboard" like those of us critical of the show have not seen serialised television before, rather than we've all watched serialised TV and Discovery being serialised and in 2019 doesn't excuse it for being a poorly written mess.



And just like I pointed out a few weeks ago, taking the moral high ground than instantly resorting to ad homenim attacks. Another thing that constantly happens here.



Been saying this here for literally a year dude. Still just get "ITS 2019 PEOPLE DON'T WANT CARDBOARD SETS" thrown in my face.

May you find your way as pleasant, my friend.
Talosian.jpg
 
Perhaps think a bit deeper about your approach?
I've written dozens of posts as to the problems with Discovery's writing in detail. Every time I just get "It's 2019 TV is serialised get over it" like that was at all my problem with the amateurish mess the writing on this show is. Here's a fun fact, most of us critical of the show, have no problem with serialised television, we do have a problem with
- Burnham
- Too many plot arcs in single episodes crowding out everything and not allowing anything to breath
- Constant tell don't show in terms of character relationships thus making intense character relationship moments feel bizarre and unearned.
- Burnham
- lack of consistent characterisation even within episodes themselves since they're largely written to be whatever the plot needs them to be
- Tonally out of wack action and drama for what the story actually calls for in context.
- Sci-fi writing that makes no sense whatsoever once you actually think about what is happening in context of it's own story
- Writers constantly forgetting themselves their own poorly thought out Sci-fi plot line thus the episode will often contradict its own scifi plot point in a major way literally within minutes of itself often breaking the entire concept to begin with
- Burnham
- tedious pandering writing designed to appeal to the Big Bang Theory crowd "THIS IS THE POWER OF MATH!" (Clap nerds clap!)
- good example of what is wrong with that scene beyond the eye rolling pandering writing, we are never actually shown them doing anything to do with math or science or anything leading up to that scene because thats what happens when you have A, B.... C, D, E plots all crammed in a single 40-50 minutes.
- Burnham
- Major lack of exploration of sci-fi concepts in general, only a few episodes even bother to attempt it and have poor execution largely because of pacing issues and too many plots.
- Burnham
- Burnham
- Burnham

On top of that if you want to get into Star Trek related issues
- Missing the tone of Star Trek terribly, the show is dark, grim and miserable in a tediously edgy way.
- The politics of the show are represented wrong, Literally flat out cheering violent interventionism and nation building, strapping bombs to the dead so those collecting them will be killed. Thinks it's progressive because it has a black lady and a gay person.
- Constant canon violations in just weird little ways that shouldn't be, like repeatedly getting General Order 1 wrong in what it states you can and can't do in the dialogue. Things like that show that the writers aren't just retconning things on purpose, they're specifically missing the point and/or being lazy to check what the canon actually says.
- Nobody follows orders or chain of command.
- Nobody acts professional at all, it's like watching a bunch of undergrads. (dude literally dies bragging about how much better he is than his dorm roommate)
- "The fate of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE depends on this childrens card game" done like 3 or 4 times now.

And that's just off the top of my head, there are a lot more issues of with the show and specifically thing wrong in episode which you can go into actual detail on.
 
I've written dozens of posts as to the problems with Discovery's writing in detail. Every time I just get "It's 2019 TV is serialised get over it" like that was at all my problem with the amateurish mess the writing on this show is. Here's a fun fact, most of us critical of the show, have no problem with serialised television, we do have a problem with
- Burnham
- Too many plot arcs in single episodes crowding out everything and not allowing anything to breath
- Constant tell don't show in terms of character relationships thus making intense character relationship moments feel bizarre and unearned.
- Burnham
- lack of consistent characterisation even within episodes themselves since they're largely written to be whatever the plot needs them to be
- Tonally out of wack action and drama for what the story actually calls for in context.
- Sci-fi writing that makes no sense whatsoever once you actually think about what is happening in context of it's own story
- Writers constantly forgetting themselves their own poorly thought out Sci-fi plot line thus the episode will often contradict its own scifi plot point in a major way literally within minutes of itself often breaking the entire concept to begin with
- Burnham
- tedious pandering writing designed to appeal to the Big Bang Theory crowd "THIS IS THE POWER OF MATH!" (Clap nerds clap!)
- good example of what is wrong with that scene beyond the eye rolling pandering writing, we are never actually shown them doing anything to do with math or science or anything leading up to that scene because thats what happens when you have A, B.... C, D, E plots all crammed in a single 40-50 minutes.
- Burnham
- Major lack of exploration of sci-fi concepts in general, only a few episodes even bother to attempt it and have poor execution largely because of pacing issues and too many plots.
- Burnham
- Burnham
- Burnham

On top of that if you want to get into Star Trek related issues
- Missing the tone of Star Trek terribly, the show is dark, grim and miserable in a tediously edgy way.
- The politics of the show are represented wrong, Literally flat out cheering violent interventionism and nation building, strapping bombs to the dead so those collecting them will be killed. Thinks it's progressive because it has a black lady and a gay person.
- Constant canon violations in just weird little ways that shouldn't be, like repeatedly getting General Order 1 wrong in what it states you can and can't do in the dialogue. Things like that show that the writers aren't just retconning things on purpose, they're specifically missing the point and/or being lazy to check what the canon actually says.
- Nobody follows orders or chain of command.
- Nobody acts professional at all, it's like watching a bunch of undergrads. (dude literally dies bragging about how much better he is than his dorm roommate)
- "The fate of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE depends on this childrens card game" done like 3 or 4 times now.

And that's just off the top of my head, there are a lot more issues of with the show and specifically thing wrong in episode which you can go into actual detail on.
so what you're saying, to make an incredible long and boring post short, is that you have a problem with serialized television and can't get over it?
 
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On another note, I'm getting Chinese Food to watch tonight's episode. I did pizza the last few times. I have to change it up.

Looking forward to new DSC is exactly like how I used to look forward to new DS9. Except now I can buy drinks.
 
But here's my difference with Discovery, they made conscious decisions to deliberately introduce glaring inconsistencies when they didn't have to and didn't necessarily contribute to the story: those stupid Klingon ships instead of the the D7 (or even a recognizable variation), the look of the Klingons even, and the uniforms - I would have even been OK with modernized TOS-style uniforms instead of a complete departure. Those don't have ANYTHING to do with good storytelling, it's just says "I don't give a flip about what came before."

The guy behind those decisions has left the show, which is why we're seeing some changes in Season 2, like giving the Klingons hair, and giving them a more tradiational looking D7.

Also the Enterprise uniforms.
 
I've written dozens of posts as to the problems with Discovery's writing in detail. Every time I just get "It's 2019 TV is serialised get over it" like that was at all my problem with the amateurish mess the writing on this show is. Here's a fun fact, most of us critical of the show, have no problem with serialised television, we do have a problem with
- Burnham
- Too many plot arcs in single episodes crowding out everything and not allowing anything to breath
- Constant tell don't show in terms of character relationships thus making intense character relationship moments feel bizarre and unearned.
- Burnham
- lack of consistent characterisation even within episodes themselves since they're largely written to be whatever the plot needs them to be
- Tonally out of wack action and drama for what the story actually calls for in context.
- Sci-fi writing that makes no sense whatsoever once you actually think about what is happening in context of it's own story
- Writers constantly forgetting themselves their own poorly thought out Sci-fi plot line thus the episode will often contradict its own scifi plot point in a major way literally within minutes of itself often breaking the entire concept to begin with
- Burnham
- tedious pandering writing designed to appeal to the Big Bang Theory crowd "THIS IS THE POWER OF MATH!" (Clap nerds clap!)
- good example of what is wrong with that scene beyond the eye rolling pandering writing, we are never actually shown them doing anything to do with math or science or anything leading up to that scene because thats what happens when you have A, B.... C, D, E plots all crammed in a single 40-50 minutes.
- Burnham
- Major lack of exploration of sci-fi concepts in general, only a few episodes even bother to attempt it and have poor execution largely because of pacing issues and too many plots.
- Burnham
- Burnham
- Burnham

On top of that if you want to get into Star Trek related issues
- Missing the tone of Star Trek terribly, the show is dark, grim and miserable in a tediously edgy way.
- The politics of the show are represented wrong, Literally flat out cheering violent interventionism and nation building, strapping bombs to the dead so those collecting them will be killed. Thinks it's progressive because it has a black lady and a gay person.
- Constant canon violations in just weird little ways that shouldn't be, like repeatedly getting General Order 1 wrong in what it states you can and can't do in the dialogue. Things like that show that the writers aren't just retconning things on purpose, they're specifically missing the point and/or being lazy to check what the canon actually says.
- Nobody follows orders or chain of command.
- Nobody acts professional at all, it's like watching a bunch of undergrads. (dude literally dies bragging about how much better he is than his dorm roommate)
- "The fate of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE depends on this childrens card game" done like 3 or 4 times now.

And that's just off the top of my head, there are a lot more issues of with the show and specifically thing wrong in episode which you can go into actual detail on.

I really wish I knew what show you are watching, because it isn't the one I am. So there is a canyonwide disconnect between what you wish to address and what I myself have any such problem with. What I basically see is you want a TNG style show that's easy to follow and you have a hard time dealing with anything more complex with that. And you have a very headcanon dogmatic approach which IMO isn't very useful in enjoying any Star Trek, let alone this one. yes, I can see why you are unhappy, but most of what you are unhappy about I am quite comforable with.

Also, seriously, you felt the need to mention Burnham, on its own, 6 times. Its very instructive, but not about the show. Again, I like complex characters. So yes, Star Trek moving from simplistic to complex is a great thing IMHO.

I very much see that you approach Star Trek from a position of the past 50 years being set in stone and not to be messed around with. I enjoy the deconstruction of mythologies, so Disco is clearly up my alley and across town from yours. But I see it as not a matter of wrong vs right but a matter of new vs nostalgic.

However, you appear to have stopped mentioning 2 particulary shows that you used to in every single post, so there is that. And that is at least good because no, it wasn't getting any traction.
 
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The politics of the show are represented wrong, Literally flat out cheering violent interventionism and nation building, strapping bombs to the dead so those collecting them will be killed. Thinks it's progressive because it has a black lady and a gay person.
Even though the show shows it I do not see that as cheering them on, nor do I believe that is the show endorsing such actions. SF is a medium to invoke thought, not mindless adherence to what is portrayed. Unless we believe that every time Kirk was about to commit revenge was the right path, or if Picard in FC was right because of how horrible the Borg are.

I do not think the politics are represented wrong. I think they are portrayed as complicated and not black and white, something Trek has struggled with at times.

I also do not subscribe to the idea that the show is progressive simply because black lady. That is reductionist to an absurd degree.

I will not argue the writing decisions, largely because I think that S2 has moved in a much different direction. However, I think that DSC has made large steps forward from S1 (speaking as someone who enjoyed S1) and has a lot going for it, and has engaged audiences in actually discussion, rather than the back and forth arguments.

Finally, you and I will not see eye to eye on Burnham, so agree to disagree on her and the many times she is listed as a problem from your POV.
 
Live long and prosper. :beer:

My son was heading off to school this morning and he was singing excitedly to himself: "Today is DISCO DAY!" (It's also PM - pocket money - and MT - Musical Theater class - day, which he also sang about. ;)) It's awesome to see him looking forward to watching new Trek, just like I did (and still do) when I was growing up. :D
 
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