Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Discofan]

Here we go...

I have a two-hundred-year-old work of art in my house, I guess that makes it a house from the 19th century then...

 

[fireproof78]

Welcome to irrelevance.

That is the nature of fandom.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I have a two-hundred-year-old work of art in my house, I guess that makes it a house from the 19th century then...

Yeah that's right. Your (fictional) two hundred year old painting would make your house 200 years old as well.

That's a perfect representation of the situation as it stands.

And the air freshener you bought for your car last week and hung from your mirror changes your car's age from being ten years old to only a week old!

 

[Discofan]

Here we go...

That's right - it's 'clownishly simplistic' to say that a car manufactured in 2015 is five years old and not a million years old due to the minerals in the metalwork.

It's clownishly simplistic for me to write '30' on forms because I was born in 1990 rather than millions of years old due to my genetics.

Why am I not surprised? You completely misread what I said. The millions of years old statement was sarcasm directed at your obstinacy to claim that Discovery was a 23rd-century vessel in spite of its refit.

No wonder you're so messed up. You keep understanding the opposite of what people are saying...

You're clownishly simplistic to argue that a car would still be say 50 years old when the only part of it that hasn't been changed is the steering wheel.

Did you get it this time?

 

[Discofan]

Yeah that's right. Your (fictional) two hundred year old painting would make your house 200 years old as well.

That's a perfect representation of the situation as it stands.

And the air freshener you bought for your car last week and hung from your mirror changes your car's age from being ten years old to only a week old!

Yeah, "air freshener" to you qualify as a refit. I guess you throw a party each time you wash your hair.

Btw, I didn't say it was a painting. Perhaps you need reading lessons as well...

 

[Lord Garth]

Dialogue from "Scavengers", DSC Season 3 Episode 6.

-- Starting from the 1:20-mark. --

Saru: In the past three weeks, Discovery has evolved even more than we could've imagined. Her battle scars have been healed. Her internal systems updated. Programmable Matter has been integrated with our Pre-Burn technology. Even her nacelles are now detached, improving maneuverability, and enabling us to be even more efficient in flight. Her retrofit is nearly complete.

-- Starting from the 3:58-mark. --

Willa: There are also upgrades to your consoles. Check it out.

Detmer: Doesn't seem that different.

Willa: Our team kept the interface similar for you to transition, but once you engage...

Owosekun: Whoa! What just happened?

Willa: That's the retrofitted Programmable Matter. It reads your bio-signs.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Why am I not surprised? You completely misread what I said. The millions of years old statement was sarcasm directed at your obstinacy to claim that Discovery was a 23rd-century vessel in spite of its refit.

No wonder you're so messed up. You keep understanding the opposite of what people are saying...

You're clownishly simplistic to argue that a car would still be say 50 years old when the only part of it that hasn't been changed is the steering wheel.

Did you get it this time?

'Clownishly simplistic' again? 'You're so messed up'. 'Need reading lessons.' You seem to be getting a tad frustrated...

But anyway, yeah a 23rd century ship with a 32nd century refit isn't a 32nd century ship is it? It's a 23rd century ship that's had a refit.

A 1960s Navy ship can have all the upgrades and refits it likes - it's still not a ship from the 2020s.

A person would need to be so messed up and/or clownishly simplistic not to grasp that surely?

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm inclined to call the Discovery a 23rd Century ship with 32nd Century modifications.

Discovery wasn't refitted, it was retrofitted. Not the same thing.

A refit would be more like what happened with the Enterprise in TMP. Where the ship was completely changed from top-to-bottom, interior to exterior. What happened with Discovery wasn't that.

Discovery looks mostly like the same ship, but some new things were just added to it.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I'm inclined to call the Discovery a 23rd Century ship with 32nd Century modifications.

Well yeah. Cos that's what the Discovery is.

 

[Discofan]

'Clownishly simplistic' again? 'You're so messed up'. 'Need reading lessons.' You seem to be getting a tad frustrated...

But anyway, yeah a 23rd century ship with a 32nd century refit isn't a 32nd century ship is it? It's a 23rd century ship that's had a refit.

A person would need to be so messed up and/or clownishly simplistic not to grasp that surely?

It all depends on how much refit Discovery has undergone. If everything but the hull and bulkheads has been changed and/or upgraded then surely even you can understand that Discovery no longer qualifies as a 23rd-century ship.

 

[Lord Garth]

Well yeah. Cos that's what the Discovery is.

I already knew that to begin with. But I had to type all that out because you know as well as I do that someone's going to try to come up with something if I'm not thorough. Any blind spot they can find, they'll take full advantage of.

They'll run with something forever if they can.

 

[Discofan]

They've replaced everything with programmable matter including the controls IOW, it only looks like the old Discovery, but in fact, it's completely different.

It would be like someone making a statue of you and then claiming that it was you because it looked exactly the same.

 

[Discofan]

...

Discovery looks mostly like the same ship, but some new things were just added to it.

Yeah, it looks the same but in fact, is completely different. The consoles for example are made of programmable matter which means that not one atom of the original console is still there.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

It would be like someone making a statue of you and then claiming that it was you because it looked exactly the same.

Another strained analogy but at least the name calling has subsided...

Yep, a statue of me isn't actually me. I hear you.

They've replaced everything with programmable matter including the controls IOW, it only looks like the old Discovery, but in fact, it's completely different.

Replaced everything you say? Replaced everything with programmable matter? I must have missed that bit... And the console upgrades were the equivalent of an Android or IOS update.

This is what we know - the Discovery is a 23rd century starship, constructed and launched in the 2250s, which has recieved upgrades from 32nd century Starfleet.

It's as (clownishly) simple as that really.

 

[Discofan]

Another strained analogy but at least the name calling has subsided...

Yeah, a statue of me isn't actually me. I hear you.


Replaced everything you say? Replaced everything with programmable matter? I must have missed that bit...

The Discovery is a 23rd century starship, constructed and launched in the 2250s, which has recieved upgrades from 32nd century Starfleet.

It's as simple as that.

So you're claiming that if someone takes a castle from the 10th century. fills every hole in the walls with concrete, puts plaster on the walls, install central heating, put bathrooms everywhere, replace every wooden beam with metal ones, install electricity. Put PVC windows etc... You'll still claim it as a 10th-century castle.

Note that we're in a similar situation here.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

So you're claiming that if someone takes a castle from the 10th century. fills every hole in the walls with concrete, puts plaster on the walls, install central heating, put bathrooms everywhere, replace every wooden beam with metal ones, install electricity. Put PVC windows etc... You'll still claim it as a 10th-century castle.

Note that we're in a similar situation here.

And another analogy...

It would be a 10th Century castle that's been renovated yes - it doesn't stop being a 10th century castle because you've put in some plug sockets and double-glazing and suddenly you can sell it as a new-build!

Another analogy would be like how a 23rd century starship doesn't stop being a 23rd century starship because someone has updated the operating system and upgraded key systems to 32nd century standards.

 

[Discofan]

And another analogy...

It would be a 10th Century castle that's been renovated yes. It doesn't stop being a 10th century castle because you've put in some plug sockets and double-glazing.
...

Yeah, that's some distortion right there. You're sure you're not in the real estate business?

Yeah, you wish...

There are so many straw men in your responses that it's become a fire hazard!


You just ignore my statement and answer to something else...

Well, nice talking to you...

 

[SJGardner]

So you're claiming that if someone takes a castle from the 10th century. fills every hole in the walls with concrete, puts plaster on the walls, install central heating, put bathrooms everywhere, replace every wooden beam with metal ones, install electricity. Put PVC windows etc... You'll still claim it as a 10th-century castle.

Note that we're in a similar situation here.

It is the same structure though. You didn't tear it down and replaced it with poured concrete from the ground up. The German Reichstag didn't magically become a postmodern building from the mid-nineties just because they renovated it, reconstructed its roof and gave it a glass dome to replace the one lost in the 1933 fire. All of its walls still stand where they've been standing since 1894.

 

[Lord Garth]

I give it three pages. Anyone else want to place a bet?

 

[fireproof78]

I give it three pages. Anyone else want to place a bet?

I going for at least 4.