Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Agony_Boothb]

I keep thinking that the beginnings of the fall might start in Picard and carry on after that is over.

I don't think you need to look that far back. I think shit started going wrong for the federation in the 29th century. I mean you had people being arrested for crimes they hadn't committed yet and starfleet officers willing to kill the entire crew of Voyager to ensure earth's safety in the future. 29th century starfleet were not nice people they were fascistic and amoral.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I don't think you need to look that far back. I think shit started going wrong for the federation in the 29th century. I mean you had people being arrested for crimes they hadn't committed yet and starfleet officers willing to kill the entire crew of Voyager to ensure earth's safety in the future. 29th century starfleet were not nice people they were fascistic and amoral.

True.... But that period is a bit after Picard, I think the early seeds of the downfall may start after his period of history ends. I keep thinking of a quote about all great empires rise and eventually fall.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

True.... But that period is a bit after Picard, I think the early seeds of the downfall may start after his period of history ends. I keep thinking of a quote about all great empires rise and eventually fall.

Yeah its after picard and much closer to the actual collapse of the federation. The federation in Picard is hawkish, but still strong and in the 26th century the Federation had formed a massive alliance to resist the sphere builders which would suggest they were at a peak 200 years after picard.

 

[Tuskin38]

I keep thinking that the beginnings of the fall might start in Picard and carry on after that is over.

There’s no connection to Picard, the producers have said this. They also said the Federation was as strong as ever when the burn hit. There was no inter strife or sign of collapse. It was all caused by the Burn.

 

[Tuskin38]

29th century starfleet were not nice people they were fascistic and amoral.

I don’t agree with this assessment at all.

and starfleet officers willing to kill the entire crew of Voyager to ensure earth's safety in the future.

Braxton just lost his homeworld (presumedly). Not everyone would act rationally in that situation. You can’t judge all of 29th century Starfleet based on the action of one man.

 

[RAMA]

Yes, good thought. Episode 3 integrates the knowledge of each other... Step 1.

RAMA

I've been looking forward to the next episode for over 20 years. "What are you talking about?"

In 1999, when DS9 ended, I thought the political situation of the Alpha Quadrant in the 24th Century developed over the course of TNG and DS9 had run its course. It felt like there was a beginning, middle, and end. I thought that once VOY was finished, Star Trek should move into a different century so they could shake things up the same way it was shaken up in 1987. (EDIT: Obviously Picard has shown there's more story to tell in the late-24th and early-25th Century, but we're taking about what I thought back in '99.)

Then, in 2001, they did change the century but I thought -- at the time -- that they went in the wrong direction. I wasn't too thrilled with the idea of a prequel in the 22nd Century. I wanted to go forward. But, at the same time I didn't want more of the 24th Century. So, in my mind, something would probably happen to change things up to make it different. I didn't necessarily think "The Fall of the Federation", just something that would differentiate two time periods.

TOS was my favorite Star Trek series and I happen to like the 23rd Century, so I was okay with DSC taking place there. "Better that, than the 24th Century," I thought. But now that DSC has moved to the 32nd Century, and it's clearly not an extension of the 24th Century, it's what I wanted in the first place, after TNG/DS9/VOY.

So this next episode, Discovery reunites with Burnham and different Starfleet people (or what's left of Starfleet) are coming onto Discovery. And the ship is going to become part of the 32nd Century world, instead of strangers. Discovery will be fully in this new "world" and we'll be seeing a lot more of it. And we're learning about The Future from the point of view of a 23rd Century crew. The timeframe of Star Trek that I identified with. So that makes it the perfect combination for me.

Another good combination is that "The Fall of the Federation" isn't completely "The Fall of the Federation." It looks more like it's just down but not out.

 

[Nyotarules]

I don’t agree with this assessment at all.



Braxton just lost his homeworld (presumedly). Not everyone would act rationally in that situation. You can’t judge all of 29th century Starfleet based on the action of one man.

Yes you can, he was carry out the orders of his superiors

 

[Mudd]

Time travel makes one sanguine about mortality. All those people you're "killing" on Voyager have been dead for five hundred years.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yes you can, he was carry out the orders of his superiors

I thought he was acting on his own?

 

[Nyotarules]

I thought he was acting on his own?

So a Trek Time cop takes it upon himself to go back to the 24th century and destroy a ship? Or did a future VOY episode state that he acted alone?

 

[Tuskin38]

So a Trek Time cop takes it upon himself to go back to the 24th century and destroy a ship? Or did a future VOY episode state that he acted alone?

A ship from the past destroys your home solar system. Maybe he was reacting irrationally. Emotionally.
He tries to destroy voyager again in 'Relativity'. That is not a rational person.

I don't think the dialogue ever says he was ordered back in time. All he says is they found a piece of voyager's hull in the aftermath.

It's all open to interoperation.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I don’t agree with this assessment at all.



Braxton just lost his homeworld (presumedly). Not everyone would act rationally in that situation. You can’t judge all of 29th century Starfleet based on the action of one man.

I can only go by what episodes show and fron what i've been shown i stand by my assessment.

 

[fireproof78]

Everything in the episode struck me as Braxton going rogue.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Everything in the episode struck me as Braxton going rogue.

Maybe he was looking for a promotion to Admiral

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Interesting.

At 16:10 of a AAFCA roundtable with Sonequa Martin-Green and Olatunde Osunsanmi, Sonequa Martin-Green said that after her year of "discovery," Michael may no longer want to be in Starfleet.

AAFCA Roundtables: Star Trek Discovery

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That would be a different way to do Star Trek.

EDIT: Oh, and it's an okay discussion all around.

 

[NCC-73515]

She thinks being in Starfleet means being a soldier?

 

[yenny]

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They were planing it since the beginning. At the end before the split delta shield. They're coming out what look like a exit of a wormhole or a jump gate exit.

 

[fireproof78]

She thinks being in Starfleet means being a soldier?

I mean, that's Kirk's point of view so it is not unprecedented.

 

[Nerys Myk]

She thinks being in Starfleet means being a soldier?

Only on alternate Thursdays

 

[Lord Garth]

"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth."

SMG's thoughts about Burnham in Starfleet fits the idea of what Starfleet is intended to be in the 23rd Century. She'd carry that mentality forward with her in the 32nd Century.

It's really in the 24th Century that life on a Starfleet ship was shown as being more like an office job.