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Gene’s JFK idea

I really liked the Questor Tapes. Sorry that it didn’t go to a series.

It almost did, but the network wanted to drop the most interesting parts of it and turn it into a Fugitive clone -- dumping Jerry as Questor's friend and partner, erasing the ending of the movie so Questor still didn't know his origins, etc. Roddenberry walked away rather than see it compromised like that.


Has anyone seen the 1977 TV movie Spectre?

Reviewed here (with spoilers): https://christopherlbennett.wordpre...-roddenberrys-spectre-and-marvels-dr-strange/

In summary:
Well, this was a mixed bag. The idea of a Holmes-like supernatural detective had promise, and Robert Culp did a terrific job as usual. But Gig Young was disappointing as Ham, not managing to achieve the same kind of chemistry with his co-star that Shatner had with Nimoy or The Questor Tapes‘ Mike Farrell had with Robert Foxworth. Casting Young would’ve been problematical if this had gone to series — not only was he unreliable due to his heavy alcoholism, but a year after this was made, he killed himself and his new wife for reasons that were never understood. Which makes it creepier to watch him than John Hurt.
 
It almost did, but the network wanted to drop the most interesting parts of it and turn it into a Fugitive clone -- dumping Jerry as Questor's friend and partner, erasing the ending of the movie so Questor still didn't know his origins, etc. Roddenberry walked away rather than see it compromised like that.

I was aware of that. It wouldn’t have been the same show. I would have wanted a series true to Roddenbury’s vision,

And thanks for the reviews. I’m tempted to go looking for the Doctor Strange TV movie.
 
Pretty Maids All in a Row says otherwise...

Has anyone actually seen that? Wish it was on Amazon Prime or Netflix. I’d give it a whirl.
My wife and I watched it a couple years ago. (I think we ILLed it?) Parts of it are bad, but parts of it are so bad it's good. The way the high school girls just go sex-crazy is hilariously over-the-top. The ending is laugh-out-loud funny. The "mystery" is super-obvious. Terry Savalas is good, and the joke about the traffic cop who thinks he can be a murder investigator is a good one.
 
I enjoyed the Dr Strange movie.

Me, too. That was my favorite of all those 1970s CBS Marvel adaptations, in large part because it was the only one that didn't seem vaguely embarrassed by its comic-books and which fully embraced the more fantastic aspects of the original comics, complete with astral travel to dark dimensions, honest-to-goodness sorcerers and demons, people hurling magical energy bolts at each other, etc.
 
My wife and I watched it a couple years ago. (I think we ILLed it?) Parts of it are bad, but parts of it are so bad it's good. The way the high school girls just go sex-crazy is hilariously over-the-top. The ending is laugh-out-loud funny. The "mystery" is super-obvious. Terry Savalas is good, and the joke about the traffic cop who thinks he can be a murder investigator is a good one.
I’ll keep looking for it. Sounds like it could be fun. (I don’t know what ILL means...?)
 
Me, too. That was my favorite of all those 1970s CBS Marvel adaptations, in large part because it was the only one that didn't seem vaguely embarrassed by its comic-books and which fully embraced the more fantastic aspects of the original comics, complete with astral travel to dark dimensions, honest-to-goodness sorcerers and demons, people hurling magical energy bolts at each other, etc.

Well, the fact that it was about fantasy and magic rather than superheroics was probably a factor. There were a lot of '70s shows and movies about the occult, sorcery, and the like, including the aforementioned Spectre.

And as I said in my review, it did change things to be more TV-conventional by having Strange be a working surgeon instead of an ex-surgeon. No doubt the series would've been in the vein of a standard hospital drama of the day with supernatural stuff grafted onto the formula (the same sort of thinking that turned Lucifer into a police procedural). And I doubt there would've been as much astral/interdimensional stuff in the weekly series -- more just patients-of-the-week coming to Strange with problems that turn out to be of mystical origin.
 
Roddenberry was kinda like a pre-Tarantino with ideas like that.
No, he was just a total perv.
How are Andromeda and Earth II? Any good?
How much of Andromeda and Earth: Final Conflict actually came from Rodenberry? I was kind of under the impression that only the very, very basic initial concepts came from him, and that the vast majority of what was in the shows that we got came from the modern writers who actually made the shows.
I know this is heresy for a Trek fan, but I've never been that impressed with Rodenberry, and as I've learned more and more about him I've become even less impressed. It really seems to me that Trek's success was due more to the people he worked with, rather than Rodenberry himself. He had some good ideas, but it seems to me that they were vastly outnumbered by bad, weird, and at times kinda creepy ones.
 
How much of Andromeda and Earth: Final Conflict actually came from Rodenberry? I was kind of under the impression that only the very, very basic initial concepts came from him, and that the vast majority of what was in the shows that we got came from the modern writers who actually made the shows.

E:FC was close enough that he got the writing credit on the pilot, but some changes were made by showrunner Richard C. Okie. Roddenberry's idea featured more malevolent aliens and was too similar to V, so Okie made the Taelons more ambiguous in their motivations, so it was more like British colonialism -- they believed they were here to help us, but their worldview was so alien that their ideas of what we needed didn't mesh well with our values. That was the part that made it most fascinating, and it wasn't from Roddenberry. (Although once Okie was canned halfway through season 1, the show got dumbed down to the point that the Taelons did become more straight-up evil, at least the main one who was added by the second showrunner and ended up taking over as the main villain.)

Andromeda was a loose reworking of the Genesis II/Planet Earth premise of a man named Dylan Hunt suspended in time, waking up in a post-apocalyptic world, and working to rebuild civilization, but since Kevin Sorbo wanted to do a space series, they revamped it from post-apoc Earth to an intergalactic far-future setting (and I actually do mean intergalactic, not just interstellar). They also tossed in an idea or two from a vague Roddenberry premise called Starship that Majel Roddenberry had been trying to get off the ground separately for several years, mainly just the idea of a sentient starship AI as a main character. But the bulk of it came from Robert Hewitt Wolfe, largely reworked from some unused notes about a potential fall-of-the-Federation Star Trek series.


I know this is heresy for a Trek fan, but I've never been that impressed with Rodenberry, and as I've learned more and more about him I've become even less impressed. It really seems to me that Trek's success was due more to the people he worked with, rather than Rodenberry himself. He had some good ideas, but it seems to me that they were vastly outnumbered by bad, weird, and at times kinda creepy ones.

I don't think it's heresy these days -- people have been questioning the Roddenberry myth and exposing his feet of clay for quite a while now.

He was a problematical figure, to be sure, and the only solo writing effort of his that I think was really good was "The Cage." But he did have some worthwhile ideas. He wanted to bring SFTV to a greater level of maturity and sophistication, to bring in ideas and writers from prose SF, to use SF allegory as a vehicle for sneaking social commentary past the censors, and to portray an optimistic future instead of the dystopias and apocalypses that were more the norm in that era. And while he had limitations as a writer, his work was still a damn sight better than pretty much any other non-anthology SFTV prior to the late '80s.

And a lot of the creepiness was, unfortunately, par for the course in that era. He was far from the only Hollywood producer who used the casting couch to seduce or sexually pressure young actresses. And despite doing that, he treated women relatively well in other ways, like making D.C. Fontana a story editor and hiring other female writers like Margaret Armen, and portraying a future where women were actually crew members on interstellar vessels, even if they were mostly relegated to expected feminine professions like nurse, secretary, and switchboard operator.
 
Me, too. That was my favorite of all those 1970s CBS Marvel adaptations, in large part because it was the only one that didn't seem vaguely embarrassed by its comic-books and which fully embraced the more fantastic aspects of the original comics, complete with astral travel to dark dimensions, honest-to-goodness sorcerers and demons, people hurling magical energy bolts at each other, etc.

I really enjoyed the older guy who mentored Doctor Strange. I loved it when he casually waved his hand in front of that nurse.
 
From what I read of Roddenberry's JFK storyline, I don't think it would've worked at all. As Harve Bennett was fond of saying about STV's story, the JFK story is an inherently flawed story premise. You know going in that they're not going to actually save Kennedy, so really, what's the point? And when you factor in that Roddenberry was proposing this story less than 20 years after JFK was assassinated in real life, it sounds like the worst possible taste. Can you imagine somebody making a movie today where they argued that 9/11 HAD to happen in order to ensure a future utopia? It wouldn't go over any better than this thing would have.

And when you factor in Amanda being raped by Klingons, too... no. That just sounds absolutely gratuitous and unnecessary. Paramount showed good sense in rejecting this three times.
Roddenberry really seems like he'd have been happier writing grindhouse porn.
Could be. Another project he tried to get off the ground in the 70s was a highly sexual Tarzan movie.
Pretty Maids All in a Row says otherwise...

Has anyone actually seen that?
Yep, I caught it late night on TCM a few years ago. It's absolutely bizarre and it hasn't aged well, but it's kind of unintentionally hilarious, especially considering that we now know that Rock Hudson was gay in real life. It's worth seeing just because it's so utterly weird. It has an interesting satirical touch that everyone in town is more concerned about how the serial murders will affect the local high school's football games than the fact that there's a serial killer on the loose. And there's the weird subtext running through the entire movie of "None of these horrible murders would be happening if only our uptight, prudish society would just let teachers sleep with their students without consequence!" which is certainly an... unusual stance to take. I'm sure that all the scenes of the young high school girls throwing themselves at the middle aged Rock Hudson had more than a bit of wish fulfillment for Roddenberry and director Roger Vadim.

It's fun to see James Doohan and William Campbell in non-Trek roles, though. Telly Savalas plays a cop pre-Kojak. Angie Dickinson and Joanna Cameron (Filmation's Isis) both look great. And Roddy McDowall is wonderful as always.

There's an interesting essay over on TrekMovie.com about Pretty Maids, that specifically puts it in the context of Star Trek.
I don't think it's heresy these days -- people have been questioning the Roddenberry myth and exposing his feet of clay for quite a while now.
I figure that Roddenberry's feet of clay went up to at least his armpits.
 
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Let’s hear it for the perverts!

Nudity, swearing, free love. Hedonism, baby!

We’re dealing with medievalism here.
 
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