Gay Crew members

[Guardian452]

I don't think having an attraction to just one gender is bigoted. Why would being straight be bigoted, that doesn't make sense. Being gay isn't bigoted.

Crusher was just showing that she has no attraction to women, which is fine. Being straight isn't a crime.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ This.

It's why characters like DW's Jack Harkness are such a turnoff. I hate it when characters (or also real people) go on and on about how people in the future are 'beyond' sexual orientation and that everyone is, or should be, attracted to everyone and everything. Well it just doesn't work that way. People have the absolute right to be attracted to whatever subgroup they want.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I watched a little of the ending of that episode.

Beverly actually admits that 24th century humans are a little narrow minded in love -she admits that their 'ability to love' is a little limited.

But she does she does it in such a calm, Kirk-like way, its easy to see where she is coming from.

But then you see the episodes where both crew members wear skirts and fall in love with aliens with 3 eyes and four arms.

It just seems awkward coming from a Trek show where the main claim is that humans in the 24th century are so far being being prejudiced or bigoted.

 

[Sector 7]

^I agree with you, Nightdiamond. 24th century Trek preached so often about being evolved and no longer bigoted, making the scene with Bev Crusher appear hypocritical.

 

[EnsignRicky]

For some reason I never developed a double standard; I don't like it. I'll support anyone's personal choice in real life, but same sex activities of any gender in my entertainment is something I tend to shy away from. Basically, I'm live and let love, just don't shove it in my face.

Just offering an opposing viewpoint from a probably very small demographic.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I prefer that the crew and people of Trek have their free choice and personal preferences too.

I like the idea that individuals are free to do such things in the 24th century, and yet can still respect one another .

Problem is, Trek treated the subject either very dramatically, or in a analogous, quiet sense-it's never directly mentioned.

I wondered if Trek could have just handled the subject in a direct, funny way.

For example, a character, (alien or otherwise) that obliviously likes men , hits on Picard , and Picard smiling, says something like, "sorry, I really, really, really, like women".

"Oh yes, full bodied buxom women"

That would have made it clear that a lot of people in this time like only a certain gender, but it still comes out funny and innocent.

There were 80's even 70's shows, that surprisingly just went ahead and dealt with the issue such a way.

.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I
I like the idea that individuals are free to do such things in the 24th century, and yet can still respect one another .

Exactly! Beverly *is* trying to respect Kareel, by trying as best she can to let the other woman down easy and not just say "Sorry, I don't like chicks, now take a hike".

 

[DonIago]

I think if her feelings for Odan had been portrayed as a friends w/benefits situation or something less substantial than Bev's reactions would have been a bit more understandable. As it is I think she comes off a bit shallow for not even being willing to -try- to keep things going with the person she was oh so deeply in love with...the fact that she's a doctor is particularly unhelpful in this scenario.

I'm gay, AFAIK, but I'd like to think that if I had a serious BF who had some sort of situation that required him to become a woman that I wouldn't cut things off quite so summarily.

 

[Captrek]

I think she comes off a bit shallow for not even being willing to -try- to keep things going with the person she was oh so deeply in love with...

Keep in mind that this is the TV brand of “oh so deeply in love” that exists between characters who have known each other for only a few days and is required to end before the episode does.

 

[Hermiod]

^I agree with you, Nightdiamond. 24th century Trek preached so often about being evolved and no longer bigoted, making the scene with Bev Crusher appear hypocritical.

No, it just means that Beverly herself was heterosexual and the concept of having a romantic relationship with a woman did not appeal to her. Being 'enlightened' doesn't mean that you have to be omnisexual!

If anyone here is unenlightened it's people who think that personal choice doesn't come in to it. She didn't launch in to some tirade about homosexuality, she simply could not accept that Odan was the same person. And she was right.

With Trill it is a matter of new host, new person. Beverly unwittingly protected Odan by making the choice she did.

 

[DonIago]

I think she comes off a bit shallow for not even being willing to -try- to keep things going with the person she was oh so deeply in love with...

Keep in mind that this is the TV brand of “oh so deeply in love” that exists between characters who have known each other for only a few days and is required to end before the episode does.

Clearly. But in this case that weakens the episode and Bev's character.

I haven't seen the episode in quite some time, but as portrayed I think Bev's reaction comes across as far too knee-jerk...which is apparently what bothers some other viewers as well. I'm fine with Bev turning Odan down and recognize the necessity of it in the end...it's the way she does it that bugs me.

 

[T'Girl]

Have you also considered that Beverly might have, perhaps not as quickly, rejected Odan, if the symbiote was placed into a male Trill? It is a blending (although not with Riker).It's possible that any Odan/Humanoid Trill combination would have resulted in a combined whole that Beverly would have found "unattractive" (not sure I'm using the right word there).

 

[Nightdiamond]

That's the problem- The shows has advertised the idea that in the future anyone can fall in love with any type of alien (or anyone) no matter how different.

So we see different types of pairings between aliens and humans.

But when I think about it, you have to see poor Beverly's point of view.

He never told her he was a Trill in the first place, and then suddenly it's in Commander Riker's body.

She's willing to accept that, although reluctantly.

Then it is moved into yet another host that Beverly has to get used to, so I can see why Beverly is shaken up by it.

And yet it is that one small part that says so much-she appears somewhat eager to meet the new host when she thinks it is a male- "didn't she say "Bring him in" or something?

When she sees she's a female, her expression and demeanor changes.

I still like the calm speech she gave to her though, puts her up there woth the captains IMO.

The funny thing is I've never truly paid attention to that scene until now.

By the way, big blooper-Trills are not supposed to resume former romantic relationships.

 

[Hermiod]

^I already mentioned that. The differences between the Trill in TNG and DS9 were considerable.

If Odan was a DS9 Trill then there could be no expectation on Beverly since the combination of symbiont and host make a completely new person.

Quite frankly, what's on the outside does count. It's completely unreasonable to expect Beverly or anyone else to be able to transfer her feelings to a different person and it's especially unreasonable to link this to the lack of gay characters in Star Trek.

 

[Penta]

Not really a blooper. TNG Trills were basically "overwritten" by the DS9 implementation, and the "no relationships with people from former lives" thing wasn't even introduced til DS9 season 7 or so, IIRC.

Edit: And Hermiod ninjas me.

 

[Hermiod]

^Don't hate me because I type fast.

 

[DonIago]

As I've been trying to make clear, I don't think anyone feels that Beverly was required to accept Odan as a woman, only that if they're going to portray Bev and Odan's relationship as deep and meaningful than to reject it entirely -and summarily- based solely on physical appearance doesn't reflect on Bev very well.

Granted we're exchanging one cliche for another, but I would have liked for her to at least try to embrace the "love conquers all" attitude only to realize in the end that it's not going to work. At it's best Odan's new personality due to its new host would have created incompatibilities that didn't exist previously, rather than leaving it as a physical matter. Granted the episode didn't exactly have time for that sort of resolution.

The simple fact that people wonder whether Bev would have been so quick to dismiss Odan if the new host had been a man makes it clear that there is a "gay angle" here.

Again, Bev has a right to date whoever she wants and to have her own comfort levels...that doesn't mean we all have to get behind her decisions or think they're necessarily worthy of her.

 

[Hermiod]

^No, I'm sorry if I'm putting too fine a point on this but it sounds like the 'if you don't find members of your own gender sexually attractive then you're anti-gay' attitude that I see far too much of. The last time I checked, Star Trek: The Next Generation wasn't a Russell T. Davies show.

People who claim that physical appearance doesn't matter are liars as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DonIago]

So...if your husband/wife/significant other suffers a disfiguring accident, that's pretty much it for the relationship, then?

After all, physical appearance does matter...

 

[Hermiod]

So...if your husband/wife/significant other suffers a disfiguring accident, that's pretty much it for the relationship, then?

After all, physical appearance does matter...

No, but it does matter. It may not be the end, but it does matter.

The Odan Beverly knew died. He didn't suffer some disfiguring accident, he died. He passed on, joined the choir invisible, he's pushing up the daisies, he ceased to be. He was replaced with someone who looked completely different but had his memories, not his personality.

Again, not fancying girls doesn't make Beverly a homophobe. It just makes her straight. That's not a crime.