Yeah, Nero is a lame villain, but I love the rest of the film. I just watched for a 5th time today and am still picking up new things.
Gave the movie a second viewing.
- Thread starter Nerdius Maximus
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The "let's hide in Titan's atmosphere and slowly rise from the mist on thrusters" thing...
Although hiding in the mist is admittedly pretty generic and is done often enough in Trek (sometimes even using the original Mutara effects from ST2, such as in "Best of Both Worlds"!). It's just the "breaching the surface" shot that is too remniscent of the original.
I think the third watching did something for me, too. The ending where Kirk suddenly exhibits mercy towards Nero, then readily withdraws it when Nero sprouts his usual cardboard villain stuff, now clicks with me just fine. Before, I thought the warp core jettison scene right after it served a purpose, in distracting from the fact that Kirk just did something Kirk Prime would not have done. Now that I feel the young Kirk is on the right footing, the warp core scene feels painfully superfluous...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo,
The Warp Core ejection scene serves to add the cinematic bang to the proceedings.
If the movie simply ended with Nero being blown to bits, then the Enterprise left in space and a fade to the Academy, it would not have had that "YES" moment of the escape from the Black Hole.
As for the Let's Hide in Titan's Atmosphere thing, I don't see that as a copy of TWOK. The only thing I can think of that is close in TWOK might be where the Enterprise rises behind the Reliant and crippling her with Torpedoes.
The "breaching the surface" things was never done in TWOK, simply due to the fact that they did not have CGI cloud dynamics to do the effect. They only composited the ship in matching colored lighting over the cloud tank background back then.
The concept was vaguely similar in that it resulted in a hero shot of the Enterprise, but that's about it.
The Warp Core ejection scene serves to add the cinematic bang to the proceedings.
If the movie simply ended with Nero being blown to bits, then the Enterprise left in space and a fade to the Academy, it would not have had that "YES" moment of the escape from the Black Hole.
As for the Let's Hide in Titan's Atmosphere thing, I don't see that as a copy of TWOK. The only thing I can think of that is close in TWOK might be where the Enterprise rises behind the Reliant and crippling her with Torpedoes.
The "breaching the surface" things was never done in TWOK, simply due to the fact that they did not have CGI cloud dynamics to do the effect. They only composited the ship in matching colored lighting over the cloud tank background back then.
The concept was vaguely similar in that it resulted in a hero shot of the Enterprise, but that's about it.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
So you watched the movie as a rental, I take it?
Even for someone like me who didn't love the film I got more out of it the second time than the first. It is worth a rewatching.
I watched again yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed the film. The performances were universally good, the story is paced well, and even my minor gripes seemed less troublesome second time around.
One thing that still irritates is that the increased pace has dumbed down some of the science a bit too much. I really don't get the supernova. If it was the Romulan star, then turning it into a black hole would be worse for the Romulans. If it's in another star system then, given that the energy moves at the speed of light, it would take years to reach Romulus and if it's travelling so much faster than the speed of light that it gave the planet no time to react, how is Spock able to fly up to it to employ the red matter? I'm not a scientist and this looks like a gaping black hole in plot logic even to me. And what about the Remans, whose planet is right next door to the Romulans? They didn't even get an honourable mention in death. Oh and how far could Spock have flown away from Earth's solar system before creating the new black hole? Such a massive source of gravity close to Earth's solar system would have interesting consequences...
The only other irritant remains the lack of cohesion in the time frame of the plot i.e. it would take about a day at warp 9+ to reach Vulcan even using TNG warp factors. And at Warp 3, the Enterprise would be a long way off towards the Laurentian system in the time it takes Kirk to trudge 14km through the snow and have a chat to Spock, and then Scotty, and then to set up the transporter equipment with revised equations - most probably at least 10 hours' worth of travel in all, which would be way outside the range of a TNG transporter, even taking into account the difficulties described by Scotty about beaming at warp
If they tighten up on stuff like this i.e. confirm that technology now much better than it was in TOS time frame (I hope not as the increase in technology involves an comparable increase in plot contrivances to overcome such technology - it save time if you just leave the tech more basic in the first place).
Still, if they can maintain this level of overall quality and re-introduce more of the women such as Chapel, Rand, T'Pau, and Carol Marcus in the sequel, I will be very happy to see where it all leads.
One thing that still irritates is that the increased pace has dumbed down some of the science a bit too much. I really don't get the supernova. If it was the Romulan star, then turning it into a black hole would be worse for the Romulans. If it's in another star system then, given that the energy moves at the speed of light, it would take years to reach Romulus and if it's travelling so much faster than the speed of light that it gave the planet no time to react, how is Spock able to fly up to it to employ the red matter? I'm not a scientist and this looks like a gaping black hole in plot logic even to me. And what about the Remans, whose planet is right next door to the Romulans? They didn't even get an honourable mention in death. Oh and how far could Spock have flown away from Earth's solar system before creating the new black hole? Such a massive source of gravity close to Earth's solar system would have interesting consequences...
The only other irritant remains the lack of cohesion in the time frame of the plot i.e. it would take about a day at warp 9+ to reach Vulcan even using TNG warp factors. And at Warp 3, the Enterprise would be a long way off towards the Laurentian system in the time it takes Kirk to trudge 14km through the snow and have a chat to Spock, and then Scotty, and then to set up the transporter equipment with revised equations - most probably at least 10 hours' worth of travel in all, which would be way outside the range of a TNG transporter, even taking into account the difficulties described by Scotty about beaming at warp
If they tighten up on stuff like this i.e. confirm that technology now much better than it was in TOS time frame (I hope not as the increase in technology involves an comparable increase in plot contrivances to overcome such technology - it save time if you just leave the tech more basic in the first place).
Still, if they can maintain this level of overall quality and re-introduce more of the women such as Chapel, Rand, T'Pau, and Carol Marcus in the sequel, I will be very happy to see where it all leads.
No, I own it. I am a completist Star Trek whore who must own as much of it on DVD as possible.
Does this make me a hipocrite? Perhaps. Do I care? No.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
I hope the next movie will make you think deep something interesting but still have humour and the trio bonds more what you think
I think the next movie is going to feature pretty splosions, lens flares and Nokia ads.
As far as the time it takes to get to Vulcan, I'm okay with that. They didn't ever state how long it took to get there, and having the crew standing around doing nothing for a day would have been boring.
Boring to you, maybe.
Anything that doesn't move the plot forward should be boring, it's not different with any movie.
Boring to almost everyone, definitely.
Though I still enjoyed the movie, repeated viewings now result in my noticing little inconsistencies in filming. For example when Spock first walks onto the shiny (ooo shiiiiiny) new bridge, his trousers are not tucked into his boots, but once at his station, they're tucked in. Personally, I like the trousers out of the boots. When they're tucked in, it looks sloppy. Though, he could be out of the trousers entirely and I'd be fine with that. 
I actually prefer the tucked-in boots.
It's a little military touch to visually cue in "hey, these guys are professional and super-serious" without resorting to TWOK-style over-the-top costuming whimsy.
It's a little military touch to visually cue in "hey, these guys are professional and super-serious" without resorting to TWOK-style over-the-top costuming whimsy.
You know, I would have definitely preferred the tucked in boots as well, if the trousers were sleeker and more form fitting. Or hmmm, maybe if the boots were taller...
THE CONDENSED LIST OF STAR TREK (2009)'S MAJOR PLOTHOLES:
Characterization:
1. Kirk's insta-promotion from cadet to Captain of the flagship. Number-one most glaringly painful plot problem in the movie.
2. Nero's motivations make considerably less sense than Shinzon's. Which, for the record, made very little sense.
3. Kirk and Spock Prime meet randomly in a random cave on an apparently random world. The odds against this are beyond astronomical. Kirk is more likely to win the lottery a thousand times in a row and to spontaneously transform into a duck than for this meeting to take place.
4. Why doesn't Spock try to restore the original timeline? He always has before.
5. Is Kirk really the cosmic douchebag (pardon my French) that the movie arguably portrays him as being?
Science:
6. "The supernova threatened the galaxy." No. No no no no no.
7. That is NOT how black holes work - gravitational effects.
8. That is NOT how black holes work - temporal effects.
9. That is NOT how black holes work - visual effects.
10. Everything about the destruction of Romulus.
11. Why does time travel work the way the creators now claim it works? It's unprecedented and illogical.
12. Technical inconsistencies - architecture, ship size, technological capability after the Nero Incursion.
13. Technical inconsistencies before the Nero Incursion and temporal divergence (aboard the Kelvin)
14. Numerous other more minor science nitpicks.
15. Why is there a huge chasm in the middle of Iowa?
Did I miss any?
I hope that helps, Cheapjack. It's a great movie and I loved it, but it's plot is shamelessly swiss-cheesed in order to make room for ridiculously fast pacing and some nice character moments.
(As a shameless cross-promotion, my insanely long, soul-sucking dissertation on this movie, Eleven is Prime: A Reconciliation, addresses and, I believe, successfully resolves all these plot holes... and many more! </plug>)
Characterization:
1. Kirk's insta-promotion from cadet to Captain of the flagship. Number-one most glaringly painful plot problem in the movie.
2. Nero's motivations make considerably less sense than Shinzon's. Which, for the record, made very little sense.
3. Kirk and Spock Prime meet randomly in a random cave on an apparently random world. The odds against this are beyond astronomical. Kirk is more likely to win the lottery a thousand times in a row and to spontaneously transform into a duck than for this meeting to take place.
4. Why doesn't Spock try to restore the original timeline? He always has before.
5. Is Kirk really the cosmic douchebag (pardon my French) that the movie arguably portrays him as being?
Science:
6. "The supernova threatened the galaxy." No. No no no no no.
7. That is NOT how black holes work - gravitational effects.
8. That is NOT how black holes work - temporal effects.
9. That is NOT how black holes work - visual effects.
10. Everything about the destruction of Romulus.
11. Why does time travel work the way the creators now claim it works? It's unprecedented and illogical.
12. Technical inconsistencies - architecture, ship size, technological capability after the Nero Incursion.
13. Technical inconsistencies before the Nero Incursion and temporal divergence (aboard the Kelvin)
14. Numerous other more minor science nitpicks.
15. Why is there a huge chasm in the middle of Iowa?
Did I miss any?
I hope that helps, Cheapjack. It's a great movie and I loved it, but it's plot is shamelessly swiss-cheesed in order to make room for ridiculously fast pacing and some nice character moments.
(As a shameless cross-promotion, my insanely long, soul-sucking dissertation on this movie, Eleven is Prime: A Reconciliation, addresses and, I believe, successfully resolves all these plot holes... and many more! </plug>)
I don't know. Did you post any ?
Because some of those are hardly plot holes, have been talked about, addressed and easily explained in numerous threads.
And some are just a matter of opinion or silly nitpicks based on canon ignored or the fact that it's a movie and not a documentary.
That's not to say there are not holes in the movie or things that could have been explained better of course. Or that i don't agree with a couple of the things on your list. But still...
Got it on Blu-Ray for Christmas. It looks absolutely stupendous, and yes the story has holes but like all big-budget modern movies it's about establishing the franchise so they can be more ambitious and make the audience think a bit harder next time. Similar franchises include Batman, Iron Man, Spider Man etc. All the first movies were light on plot but big on look and action in order to bring the casual viewer in, then went darker and far more complex in the second installment (as Iron Man is rumoured to be). For my Money Star Trek was a better 'first' movie than any of those I've mentioned.
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