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Gas prices won't stay low for long...

msbae

Commodore
...that is, if the chief of ExxonMobil, Rex Tillerson, has his way.


Exxon supports carbon tax
........ Herald News Services
Friday, January 09, 2009


Exxonmobil corp., the world's largest crude oil refiner, supports taxing carbon dioxide as the most efficient way of curbing greenhouse gas emissions,its chief executive said.

"As a businessman, it's hard to speak favourably about any new tax, but a carbon tax strikes me as a more direct, more transparent and more effective approach," Rex Tillerson,CEO of the Irving, Texas based company, said Thursday at the Woodrow Wilson international center for scholars in Washington.

At a Dec.11 event in Chicago, Tillerson, 56, said he preferred a carbon tax to carbon trading programs such as the type used in Europe.
A trading program, known as 'cap and trade,' "inevitably introduces unnecessary cost and complexity" that reduces effectiveness, said Tillerson. They require a vast expansion of regulation, he said. a carbon tax "can be more easily implemented" and is the "most efficient means of reflecting the cost of carbon," said Tillerson.

"Such a tax should be made revenue neutral," he said, which requires other taxes to be lowered so that the overall tax burden isn't increased.


Source: http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=e8aecbbb-16c6-412d-8054-7e64e2b176ef&sponsor=



First of all, anyone who knows ANYTHING about Earth Science knows that Carbon Dioxide is not even a significant factor in the Global Warming phenomenon. Water Vapor is what traps in most of the heat from the sun's rays, not Carbon Dioxide. Even with the kind of technology you see on Star Trek, I'm quite doubtful that we'll be able to control the world's hydrological cycle. I doubt we could control the sun's solar flare cycles, either. Not every bad thing that happens in the world is Humanity's fault, folks.

Also, this is NOT a time to be levying new taxes. When the economy is in a recession and people are struggling to pay their bills, you don't add to their financial burden. This is flat-out retarded and a major reason why I don't vote for Democrats. That party just doesn't seem to have enough sense to come to that realization.

ANY increase in taxes on an oil company will be passed on to the consumer. ExxonMobil will raise the price for the fuel, lubricants and other products they sell to fueling stations, mechanic's shops, et al. The fueling stations, mechanic's shops, et al. will pass their increased cost on to us, the consumer. There's no such thing as a For-profit business that will eat the added cost for material/supply. They will ALWAYS pass that cost on to us.

Yet, morons like Rex Tillerson and the Dems continue to insist that the 'tax and spend' approach actually works... I guess they want me to continue voting for Independents and Republicans. Looks like you'll be getting your wish, Democrats. You hit me in the pocketbook, I'll hit you much harder in the voting booth.

Also, I hope the Republicans get their act together and ditch this whole 'NeoCon' bullshit. That's just another form of a Democrat, in my far less than humble opinion. Sure, they cut taxes a lot but, they didn't cut much spending too. You don't get rid of deficits if you keep spending money you don't have!

- msbae
 
Of course they are going to raise prices. Thei ploy of lowering them in order to help the Republicans in Nov didnt work so now they are going to start screwing us over. Hopefully Obama will drag them onto the carpet and make them explain themselves.
 
Of course they are going to raise prices. Thei ploy of lowering them in order to help the Republicans in Nov didnt work so now they are going to start screwing us over. Hopefully Obama will drag them onto the carpet and make them explain themselves.
:rolleyes: Oil is almost down to $40/barrel. Boy are you clueless about market conditions and demand. Mr Obama isn't going to "take them to the carpet" or anything else.


As an aside, these carbon credits are put BS and are a money making shakedown. SOMEONE is profiting, or plans on it :vulcan:
 
First of all, anyone who knows ANYTHING about Earth Science knows that Carbon Dioxide is not even a significant factor in the Global Warming phenomenon. Water Vapor is what traps in most of the heat from the sun's rays, not Carbon Dioxide.

I'm no expert, but I think we need heat to survive. Quite a bit of it actually. So I'm pretty much fine with all that water vapor.

But that doesn't mean that excess CO2 can't tip the balance just enough to throw things out of whack. It doesn't have to be a primary factor to be having a notable effect. Supposedly global warming is raising temperatures by fractions of a degree; that's minuscule compared to the more or less 300 degress Kelvin that water vapor is responsible for, which pretty much fits the responsiblity fractions I'm guessing.
 
:rolleyes: Oil is almost down to $40/barrel. Boy are you clueless about market conditions and demand.

And you continue to be clueless about basic accounting.

Once AGAIN - when oil was over $100/barrel, Big Oil was STILL making record profits, quarter after quarter. Not record revenue, only, but record PROFITS.

That means that regardless of the high cost of crude, they were STILL charging enough to make huge profits over and above the cost of that crude.

Revenue (what they charge) - Costs (costs of crude, refining, salaries, etc) = profit.

And in order for them to have record profit, they had to be charging WAY more than was necessary. It is basic accounting. Basic subtraction, for that matter.

I don't know how many ways I can say it...but the numbers are THERE. You just refuse to accept the results of basic subtraction.

They were gouging us.

The country was struggling financially...and the oil industry was gouging us.

And if Congress had any balls at all (which they don't), they would look into investigating the oil industry as they operated during the Bush administration for anti-trust violations and price-fixing.
 
I think it's going to be very hard for the economy recover if the government puts a cost on carbon, whether it be cap and trade or an outright tax. I'm not anti-Obama. I voted for him, but Obama said that that under his cap and trade plan electricity prices would, and I quote verbatim, "necessarily skyrocket". http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=211663
It's very important to remember one thing. Energy is wealth. If you don't have plenty of one, you can't have the other.
 
First of all, anyone who knows ANYTHING about Earth Science knows that Carbon Dioxide is not even a significant factor in the Global Warming phenomenon. Water Vapor is what traps in most of the heat from the sun's rays, not Carbon Dioxide.

I'm no expert, but I think we need heat to survive. Quite a bit of it actually. So I'm pretty much fine with all that water vapor.

But that doesn't mean that excess CO2 can't tip the balance just enough to throw things out of whack. It doesn't have to be a primary factor to be having a notable effect. Supposedly global warming is raising temperatures by fractions of a degree; that's minuscule compared to the more or less 300 degress Kelvin that water vapor is responsible for, which pretty much fits the responsiblity fractions I'm guessing.

I still say it's primarily the fault of that huge Hydrogen Bomb in the sky called the Sun. ;)

Also, I'd like to see proof that Oil companies gouged someone. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 
Also, I'd like to see proof that Oil companies gouged someone. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Have to wait for February for all the oil companies to report in on their 4th quarter reports before an annual report can be put together.
 
Yeah thats smart. Jack up energy prices when the countries already struggling financially. Nero would be proud.
 
:rolleyes: Oil is almost down to $40/barrel. Boy are you clueless about market conditions and demand.

And you continue to be clueless about basic accounting.

Once AGAIN - when oil was over $100/barrel, Big Oil was STILL making record profits, quarter after quarter. Not record revenue, only, but record PROFITS.

That means that regardless of the high cost of crude, they were STILL charging enough to make huge profits over and above the cost of that crude.

Revenue (what they charge) - Costs (costs of crude, refining, salaries, etc) = profit.

And in order for them to have record profit, they had to be charging WAY more than was necessary. It is basic accounting. Basic subtraction, for that matter.

I don't know how many ways I can say it...but the numbers are THERE. You just refuse to accept the results of basic subtraction.

They were gouging us.

The country was struggling financially...and the oil industry was gouging us.

And if Congress had any balls at all (which they don't), they would look into investigating the oil industry as they operated during the Bush administration for anti-trust violations and price-fixing.

Love your Avatar, but the logic here is flawed. When you buy a gallon of milk for $3.50 let's say that the store you bought it from makes $.30 profit from that. (May be much more or less, but we will go with that.) Let's say that supply changes, or a storm interrupts shipping long term or something else, so now it costs the store more money to buy the milk. Now it charges you $5.10 per gallon, but it still only gets $.30 profit. It is still making the same amount of money but is passing the increased cost on to the consumer.

The same with gas prices. When demand is way up like it was last summer, it cost Exxon $140 to buy a barrel of oil and they passed that extra cost on to us. Now it costs it much less because demand is way way down. But whether gas is $1.00, or $4.00, these companies make about the same per gallon of gas, which is usually figured out to be between $.08-$.10 per gallon of gas. So when you fill up your 20 gallon car Exxon just made $2!!!
Which considering the government makes $.40 per gallon, isn't much.

See gas and milk are bulk items that you sell a ton of to make money. As opposed to a car, which a dealership sells for $1,000 or more profit in many cases.
Exxon was never making $2 dollars off every gallon of gas. They were always making the same money percentage wise. A big reason why they are "record profits" is that last summer more gas was being bought than ever before, thus the increased price!!
Now fewer are buying gas, so we'll see when their reports come out, but I don't think they will make us much money this time around, partially because less gas is being bought.

another important thing to remember is that these companies make money selling other things besides gas.

But then again it is a lot easier to think that oil companies are evil and Bush cronies...
 
I'm sorry, but to me the facts are these... Because gas prices were so high last summer, driving was DOWN. I, and everyone I know was cutting WAY back on driving, but the oil companies still made RECORD profits. The ONLY way to explain it is price gouging. The economy was taking a downward turn and the oil companies were sticking it to us.

I run a flooring business, and last summer I got a steady stream of price increases from my suppliers, some of them twice a month, every month. Every one of them said it was because they could no longer absorbe the cost of rising fuel. Now that gas is half as much, not one of them has reduced their prices. It's killing me, and my business, mine and every other business in town. Correction, Walmart seems to be doing very well.
 
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US oil companies control less than 10% of the world market. I think they have far less control on the price than foreign government controlled oil. We, the US needs to move forward with alternatives.
 
First of all, anyone who knows ANYTHING about Earth Science knows that Carbon Dioxide is not even a significant factor in the Global Warming phenomenon.

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
InterAcademy Council
Joint science academies' statement 2008
Joint science academies’ statement 2007
Joint science academies’ statement 2005
Joint science academies’ statement 2001
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
Network of African Science Academies
Royal Society of New Zealand
National Research Council (US)
European Science Foundation
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Federation of American Scientists
World Meteorological Organization
American Meteorological Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Quaternary Association
Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Geological Sciences
European Geosciences Union
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
Geological Society of America
American Geophysical Union
American Astronomical Society
American Institute of Physics
American Physical Society
American Chemical Society
American Society for Microbiology
Institute of Biology (UK)
World Federation of Public Health Associations
American Public Health Association
American Medical Association
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
Wildlife Society
Australian Coral Reef Society
American Statistical Association
Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)

A few groups of people who disagree.
 
But then again it is a lot easier to think that oil companies are evil and Bush cronies...

They were recording record profit in excessive billions, again as Vash pointed out these were pure, sweet, profits. "Extra money" -if you will.

They were raking in profits in double-digit billions of dollars. Which equates to them gouging us. If they reduced prices to a point where they'd only be making $1b in profits they'd still be doing pretty good.

I also think it's worth pointing out that oil companies are utilities and they need to be regulated and treated as such. They shouldn't be allowed to have multi-billion dollar profits -money that's not doing anything- when every person living on this planet needs oil and gasoline in some fashion to live and work.

Wether its to fuel their car to get to work, to pay for a bus ride (more expensive gas means more expensive bus fares), to afford food (higher gas prices means higher food prices) to heat their homes (higher gas prices for home heating) and so and so on.

That the lives of every single person this planet is controled by men who want to make $20b profits a quarter so they can retire on a mountain of cash after making their multi-million dollar salaries and end on multi-million dollar pension pans is absurd.

They need regulation, not the least of which being limits on how "much" profit they can make. The additonal profit should be redirected towards establishing an alternative fuel infrastructure (like H2 fuel) at which point we say they no longer will have tight regulation on profit.
 
It seems to me that the last few posters plainly did not understand what I wrote and responded emotionally.

As the flooring businessman said yes everyone cut back on driving but that was AFTER the price of oil (and the price of gas) rose.

But like I said. Oil companies usually make about 10 cents a gallon which is hardly price gouging. The gas stations themselves sometime only break even.
Record profits resulted from record amounts of people driving record amounts of miles.

I just don't understand how people have this image of executives sitting in a big conference room saying, well we are only making $10 billion, so we need to raise the price even more!

I can not stress this enough, Exxon and other companies made the same money per gallon, no matter what the price of gas is as. Sure, there is some dishonesty, mostly on the part of distributors who have to transport things.

I work closely with a freight company which raised its fuel surcharges, etc last summer and still haven't lowered it. But that isn't Exxon's fault.

Another thing. Profit is a good thing. When a business makes profit, it usually invests a vast majority of it back into itself to become more efficient and overall a better company.

And as far as just lining the pockets of the rich boys, the CEO of Exxon received about a $20 million bonus or whatever... while it is a ton of money, it is a tiny, tiny portion of their quarterly profits, much less their annual profits. Where is the rest of the money going? R&D!!!!
 
As the flooring businessman said yes everyone cut back on driving but that was AFTER the price of oil (and the price of gas) rose.
So you are saying all the billions in profits reported were made BEFORE the summer? I'm sorry, but that is absurd. Can you quote any sources for this claim? Record driving and consumption in the first three months of the year made the oil companies more profit then ever in their history? You don't see anything wrong with a 20 million dollar paycheck while the entire country is suffering massive layoffs and business districts are being turned into wastelands?

Are you on the oil companies payroll?
 
First of all, anyone who knows ANYTHING about Earth Science knows that Carbon Dioxide is not even a significant factor in the Global Warming phenomenon.

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
InterAcademy Council
Joint science academies' statement 2008
Joint science academies’ statement 2007
Joint science academies’ statement 2005
Joint science academies’ statement 2001
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
Network of African Science Academies
Royal Society of New Zealand
National Research Council (US)
European Science Foundation
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Federation of American Scientists
World Meteorological Organization
American Meteorological Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Quaternary Association
Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Geological Sciences
European Geosciences Union
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
Geological Society of America
American Geophysical Union
American Astronomical Society
American Institute of Physics
American Physical Society
American Chemical Society
American Society for Microbiology
Institute of Biology (UK)
World Federation of Public Health Associations
American Public Health Association
American Medical Association
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
Wildlife Society
Australian Coral Reef Society
American Statistical Association
Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)

A few groups of people who disagree.

Oh, snap.
 
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