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Garrett Wang

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I hate temporal mechanics too!



If we go by beta canon, Harry's a captain in at least two timelines and well on his way in a third.
And still an ensign in mine. I haven't found any reason to promote him yet.

But the information about Locarno I found shows that at least some writer did come up with something about what happened to him after he was kicked out from Starfleet Academy.

However, I didn't like that scenario either.



Being past the half-century mark, it's rarely far from my mind. And it's only going to get worse..
The only way is to fight it as long as possible and when that's impossible, pray for a quick departure.



No such excuse. This character's contemporaries lived their best lives, started families, had careers. The decision to eliminate this kid came because one, he was still in love with my protagonist; and two, I had no other character to pair him with, and conjuring one out of thin air a few years down the road is too deus ex machina for my tastes. Simply put, when a character can benefit a story more in death than they can in life, I will usually eliminate them.
Not an excuse for me, just my style of writing. If I kill off a character, then it's planned from the start, like it was with Stadi, Cavit and Fitzgerald in Caretaker.


Considering that a full half of the series now has had nothing to do with the Klingons, maybe you should stop condemning a series you largely haven't even seen? Given the massive change in premise that the series went through in particular between S2 and S3, but to a lesser degree between S1 and S2, I think it's fair to say that if you gave up after six episodes then you're not really qualified to talk about it.

Just imagine using the first six episodes of TNG S1 to pre-judge S3 forward. Or DS9.

The first six episodes of TNG and DS9 didn't bore me as much as series like Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek Enterprise and NCIS Hawaii, all series which I've quit watching after about five-or six episodes.
If I find the characters boring and uninteresting, the series as too much doom-and-gloom or boring or annoying in common, then I quit watching. The same if I watch a movie I don't like, such as "Greenland" which unfortunately showed up on one of my TV-channels yesterday. I quit watching after half an hour.

Despite the teenage Ninja Turtles Klingons who I found highly annoying, I didn't like the characters in Star Trek Discovery and I guess they are still there.

The only series I really disliked but continued to watch up to the end was the horrible Stargate Universe and the only reason for that was because it became a joke between me and a mate at work.

I actuallt stopped watching that series after four episodes but started watching again when my colleague told me that he had fallen asleep while watching it. Then it became a joke, like:

ME: Do you know what day it is?
COLLEAGUE: It's finally Friday!
ME: And what will happen then?
BOTH OF US: We'll watch Stargate Universe! Our favorite show!

Then on Monday, we used to discuss how bad the episode was! :lol:
But that's the only exception to my rule of quitting watching if I don't like it.
Characters are important to me. I've been watching NCIS for 18 seasons but quit recently when some good characters left and was replaced by lousy characters. The series isn't the same anymore as the one I once loved.

Anyone should be permitted to watch or ignore a given Trek series, without judgment by any of us. Be that as it may, though, Discovery might rate a second look.
As for now, I don't feel like wasting my time on it. OK, the NNinja Turtle Klingons might be gone but the boring characters are still there and I guess that the 2010's-2020's doom-and-gloom (which unfortunately affects Star Trek Picard too) still might be the same. I rather re-watch DS9, TNG and the first three seasons of Voyager again.
 
And still an ensign in mine. I haven't found any reason to promote him yet
Well, Tom got promoted for a year and a half of "exemplary" service. Why should Harry not get the same, consider he provided six years and change?
 
I admit, I managed to stick with Discovery, and I might recommend that detractors take a second look if they ever dump Michael Burnham!
Speaking of second looks, I think I owe Jennifer Lien an apology. Upthread, I mentioned that she didn't think Fury was well acted. I now think she was wrong. Fury has many problems, but she is not one of them. She put her heart and soul into what was a far more challenging job than early Kes, and she certainly should not blame herself for its unpopularity. Yes, after years of reading about it, I have finally watched it, in full.
 
Well, Tom got promoted for a year and a half of "exemplary" service. Why should Harry not get the same, consider he provided six years and change?

For Tom, I more felt it was like a reinstatement to his former rank of Lt., after a disciplinary temporary measure (i.e. 'you've done your time'), more than a 'real' promotion.

As to why he got a field commission of Lt. in the first place at the end of Caretaker, I don't really see the reason for that, when he just as easily could have been given a field commission of Ensign. (Unless perhaps there is some rule that states Helm should have a minimum rank of Lt Jg, but I don't believe that).

And I agree Harry probably should have been promoted after a few years.
 
If memory serves me right, both Tom and Chakotay were reinstated in Starfleet at their rank of separation. Effectively, with those two, Janeway was merely reactivating existing commissions.

And, while I consider Tom's reinstatement to be a promotion as much as Tuvok's, I have no issue with either. Tuvok certainly earned it, and Tom's punishment came from trying to save a world (if I ever revisit my "Roads Not Taken" AU, it will probably be to tell how Tom succeeded in that timeline). If we go by results generated instead of principles defended, Janeway should have wound up doing push-ups in the Brig and saluting Chakotay as captain for facilitating the Monean Ocean's destruction.

I have no issues with the promotions Janeway gave... aside from the face that there was one too few.
 
I also saw Paris getting his pip back as a 'time served' prize. And I agree that Tuvok earned his promotion.

However... the fact that Janeway gives Tuvok (her closest friend) a promotion and not Harry (and no one else in terms of original Starfleet crew) gave a big sense of favoritism.

Especially with her line from "TWISTED" about Kim exceeding all her expectations.
 
Was Tuvok crazy, passive aggressive or a time traveler?

He was wearing Lt Commander pips well before he got the promotion.
 
Especially with her line from "TWISTED" about Kim exceeding all her expectations.

It comes on the heels of "Non Sequitur", where Harry was on the verge of promotion in another universe. So it would have made sense for Janeway to say that she was putting him in for the same.

Is favoritism out of character for Janeway?

Whether it was or not, Harry was played as one of her favorites. And the subtle art of pretending to like someone while secretly detesting them and wishing them harm... that's out of character for her.

Was Tuvok crazy, passive aggressive or a time traveler?

He was wearing Lt Commander pips well before he got the promotion.

And Tom was wearing full lieutenant pips (○○) instead of the LTJG ones (○●) he wore later on. Voyager's costumers stepped in it in a big way.
 
And Tom was wearing full lieutenant pips (○○) instead of the LTJG ones (○●) he wore later on. Voyager's costumers stepped in it in a big way.

Looking for in universe explanations there, son.

Passive aggressive Tuvok make me giggle.
 
Whether it was or not, Harry was played as one of her favorites. And the subtle art of pretending to like someone while secretly detesting them and wishing them harm... that's out of character for her.
Unless it's Tuvix. ;)
 
Unless it's Tuvix. ;)
Again, no. Janeway made it completely clear to Tuvix that she felt that she had to be an advocate for Tuvok and Neelix, and was considering separating him regardless of his feelings in the matter. At the end, he felt terrified and betrayed... but not surprised.
 
Take a look at the fifth act of the script, everything after the Doc discovers that the two can be separated and Tuvix says he doesn't want to die.
http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/220.htm
I think you'll find that, whether her actions were right, wrong, or murderous, Janeway is completely forthcoming.
 
Not really the right thread but the hostility to Janeway over Tuvix never really made sense to me. She would have been committing two murders the other way. What she did unmade an accident. I always thought much of the wrath toward her over the decision was rooted in something else. Regardless, it's a brilliant episode.
 
I think that each of the Berman era series has a moment where they really just "didn't get" their audience, and had a leading character make a decision that the audience unloads on them after the fact for.

With TNG, it's Picard's decision to watch a whole planet die in "Homeward" while saying we should "honor the lives we cannot save". Nikolai saved a few dozen people... Picard could have saved thousands.

With DS9, surprisingly, even Sisko's controversial actions ("For the Uniform", "In the Pale Moonlight") seem to be generally supported. The decision to turn Quark into a female, on the other hand, is widely castigated.

With VOY, it's Tuvix. Yes, some people defend Janeway's actions, but by and large, I think more people condemn them.

With ENT, it seems to be Archer's decision, at Phlox's behest, to allow the entire Valakian civilization to die because of the Mink. It's played as making sense, as not playing God, as a precursor to the Prime Directive... but folks around here just call it genocide.
 
Not really the right thread but the hostility to Janeway over Tuvix never really made sense to me.
To be clear, there is none in my posts. It's one of my fave VOY eps. Both sides of the argument have pros and cons, which is what makes it interesting.
 
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