Garak - Andrew Robinson’s portrayal
- Thread starter Elephant999
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Oh, Garak as the Feederation President would be awesome! Now I wish PIC made him president, and he will - ironically and maybe unintentianally - change the Federation for the better...
Funny enough, the Alone Together DS9 Companion series shows Garak as leader of Cardassia, so in a way I got to see him as leader of a major Alpha Quadrant civilisation, just a different one.
I like Garak. And I cracked up when Winn and Dukat knocked boots. If it were anyone else, no. But because it was two characters who deserved each other royally, it was funny. Though if anyone should have a shot at Dukat... it should've been Ezri. Jadzia re-emerges in her psyche and she gets that gun... "You killed me, Dukat... now I will end you."That's what was great about him. He's a character made for us to distrust or dislike.
I could see where he would annoy someone. He was so smug.
Him
And Kai Winn. I wanted to reach into the TV and kill her evil ass most of the time.
And Dukat. I wanted to kill him a lot too.
Garak, mainly I think I would have just wanted to smack him upside the head.
He expressed regret over the occupation several times. Dubious how sincere he was, though.
But it was Dukat who betrayed Cardassia and the entire Alpha Quadrant to the Dominion, in change for being their puppet head of state.
The Dominion was the brand new toy for the producers to play with, Dukat and Cardassia was secondary and sadly they treated them that way.
It wasn't like Keiko being possessed, though. This was a willing possession. And all he said to Kira about it was, "She was in the way." That's not much of an apology.
He and Winn were like real people.
He told himself enough times how benevolently he had ruled Bajor and came to truly believe it. I think he is a true believer in the Pah Wraiths. (They should hire a new PR firm and change their name from "wraiths" btw).
We've just been rewatching DS9, right near the end and Adami Winn generally really wants to do what the Prophets want, and what's right for Bajor.
She finally snaps when Wraith-boy Dukat gets her to see how she's been played by the Prophets. He has a decent point btw. Stood by during a hellish occupation and never spoke to her. What does she owe them? They're lucky she held on so long. I mean, it's nice if the gods are weeping with you, but if they're not helpin' ya out, are they really any good?
My .02. Just making the point these were all rich characters.
He told himself enough times how benevolently he had ruled Bajor and came to truly believe it. I think he is a true believer in the Pah Wraiths. (They should hire a new PR firm and change their name from "wraiths" btw).
We've just been rewatching DS9, right near the end and Adami Winn generally really wants to do what the Prophets want, and what's right for Bajor.
She finally snaps when Wraith-boy Dukat gets her to see how she's been played by the Prophets. He has a decent point btw. Stood by during a hellish occupation and never spoke to her. What does she owe them? They're lucky she held on so long. I mean, it's nice if the gods are weeping with you, but if they're not helpin' ya out, are they really any good?
My .02. Just making the point these were all rich characters.
Gods aren't engaged in miracles-for-prayers. They will help those they find worthy. A lifetime of hypocratic lip service doesn't make someone worthy.
Hypocritical is the word you want, kkt. 
But yeah, Winn Adami clearly missed that God looks at your heart. And He's not going to follow that Ferengi Rule of Acquisition: It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
But yeah, Winn Adami clearly missed that God looks at your heart. And He's not going to follow that Ferengi Rule of Acquisition: It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
Perhaps I'm being naive here, but I really prefer to think that Winn started out years ago meaning well enough. I suspect she wasn't the first and won't be the last person who believed in a higher power and wanted to keep believing in a higher power, but her faith was ultimately undermined by seeing other people who she felt were less deserving receive gifts from the Prophets that she was denied, and she became bitter in the process. Usually this wouldn't be a big deal, but she also rose high enough as a religious official in the process that her words carried weight.
That said, if the Prophets exist outside of linear time, perhaps it's possible that they foresaw the confrontation in the Fire Caves and intentionally allowed Winn to stray becausee they needed her to be in the Fire Caves when she was. From that perspective, and given Winn's potential last minute change of heart, perhaps she was fulfilling the Prophets' plans the whole time, though it was a bit of a long con on their part.
I believe Kira said on at least one occasion that the Prophets have a plan for people, so maybe this was their plan for Winn all along.
Either way, if there's an afterlife, I hope Winn's happier there than she was during her mortal existence.
That said, if the Prophets exist outside of linear time, perhaps it's possible that they foresaw the confrontation in the Fire Caves and intentionally allowed Winn to stray becausee they needed her to be in the Fire Caves when she was. From that perspective, and given Winn's potential last minute change of heart, perhaps she was fulfilling the Prophets' plans the whole time, though it was a bit of a long con on their part.
I believe Kira said on at least one occasion that the Prophets have a plan for people, so maybe this was their plan for Winn all along.
Either way, if there's an afterlife, I hope Winn's happier there than she was during her mortal existence.
I think she was sincere most of the run of the show. Very flawed and in denial about her ambition. Kira finally interprets a prophecy for her that she should step down, and she says Bajor needs her to still be the Kai. Seems to believe that rather than just being a flat out poser.
Sometimes intriguing and unexpected star-quality charisma emerge after the pilot, but not all of those become breakout characters, even if they merited such promotions.
But after Jadzia was written off, there was an opening! Garak could've gotten his foot in the door and appeared weekly. But maybe he was just a simple tailor, not looking for regular work in the extra spotlight.
I wonder whether Garak might have overstayed his welcome if he'd been promoted to a regular. I mean, it seems unlikely, but so does the amount of time Trek has spent dealing with S31 and the Mirror Universe and the Borg at this point...
Just imagine the alternate timeline where we post about how Garak started out as a great character but then it started to feel as though TPTB couldn't go a single episode without him dropping in for no apparent plot-driven reason to make some sly comment and then disappear again.
Just imagine the alternate timeline where we post about how Garak started out as a great character but then it started to feel as though TPTB couldn't go a single episode without him dropping in for no apparent plot-driven reason to make some sly comment and then disappear again.
I'm just listening to the 4th episode of Alone together on Alexander Siddigs Youtube channel as I type this. Robinson has still got it.
For that matter, Garak becomes Castellan of the Cardassian Union in 2385 of the novels' continuity in The Fall: The Crimson Shadow (2013), and we see more of his administration in such novels as The Fall: Peaceable Kingdoms (2013), The Missing (2014), Section 31: Control (2017), and Enigma Tales (2017).
I don't think so. Garak is a character, not a threatening organization or monster; monsters are plot devices that become lamer the more often they're used (because their fundamental appeal comes from the thrill of vicarious fear of not knowing what they want or will do), but characters almost always gain more depth and sophistication through greater use.
Well, it depends on what kind of show you're writing. If you're writing a show that's about archetypes rather than fully fleshed-out, three-dimensional characters, then the mystery can be appealing. If I'm watching Doctor Who, I don't ever really want to know the Doctor's real name, or what they did on Gallifrey.
But Deep Space Nine is supposed to be a more psychologically realistic show. And to me, the mystery may bring you in, but it's not something that's sustainable; after a while, I don't care about the mystery anymore, because who cares? If we never really learn about a character, then the character can't really grown and change, and he ceases to be interesting or compelling.
Like, by Season Six, most of the mystery of Garak is gone. We know he was an agent of the Obsidian Order; we know he was the bastard son of Enabran Tain, head of the Obsidian Order. We know he made his way up the Order's ranks and became part of Tain's inner circle in a desperate attempt to gain his father's love and approval. We know he committed numerous sentient rights violations in the course of his duties. We know that at some point, he got Dukat's father executed and Dukat hated him for it. We know that at some point, Garak did something wrong and ended up exiled to Terok Nor, but we don't know what that thing was. We know that early on, Garak had had hopes of returning to Cardassia, but that by later in the series, he had come to realize that the Cardassia he grew up with was corrupt and needed to be rooted out, and something new built in its place. We know he struggled with claustrophobia and other mental health issues. We know he never understood why Tora Ziyal loved him, and we suspect he has feelings for Julian Bashir. We know he still had some very realpolitik opinions and was willing to commit sentient rights violations for the greater good in a war. And we know he looked down upon Ezri Dax when she came aboard the station.
But Garak was still a really interesting character by Season Six! And he became more interesting the more we saw him and learned about him, not less. Sure, we never really learned what he did that got him exiled -- but by S6, that wasn't really important anymore. The important things, we had figured out. And he never ceased to be interesting for it.
