Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

[StefanM]

So they can have a useless conversation with Cersei? Tyrion is not good at war strategy.

Or he tricked us all.
The truth is:
Tyrion is the main villain He worked with Cersei all the time!
- Yes, he brought Daenerys to Westeros. But only to deliver her to Cersei, after she defeated the Night King and the undeads, after she lost 2 of her dragons (the second one because of the trap, Tyrion built).
- Then he devided her troops by splitting them (land/sea).
- He stopped Varys from turning on Daenerys and support Jon - because he needs a little more of Daenerys in an open conflict against Jon. He told the secret to Varys, because he knows, Varys will tell Daenerys - that Jon talked to his sisters and betrayed her. So Tyrion makes sure, Daenerys first eliminates Jon, then is weak enough to be destroyed by Cersei.

And in the end, Cersei & Jaime sit on the Iron Throne, have their baby child, Tyrion becomes their hand and is the "true ruler" of the seven kingdoms. All other main houses are destroyed, so they can put their own people into the right positions, and everyone is happy
[Except GRRM, for what they did to his world]

 

[Paul Weaver]

Tyrion is the main villain He worked with Cersei all the time!

Bit risky sending Bronn up to kill Tyrion

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Bit risky sending Bronn up to kill Tyrion

A diversion to throw people off the scent!

(Both the viewers and Daenerys)

 

[Mr Awe]

It's a middle finger to viewers because it takes a giant shit on characters like Jon and Dany and renders numerous storylines and character relationships a colossal waste of time.

As for the kind of ending I wanted, I'd take anything that didn't require the manufacturing of petty melodrama and actually respected and honored the characters that people have come to care about.

So that's where we differ. I see this conflict as very well foreshadowed. It was clearly signposted that it was coming. And, it's not petty. It's based on fundamentally different world views that Jon and Dany hold. This type of conflict feels very realistic. Different world views colliding. Given the amount of time spent developing those world views, long before the two even met, it would feel like a cheat if suddenly everything was peachy.

So, that feels like it's developing naturally to me.

I'd also say that this is Game of Thrones. It's unrealistic to expect happy endings for anyone really.

It sounds like you want a love conquers all type ending, and that's just not going to happen on Game of Thrones. I was hoping that Grey Worm and Missendre would have one. They felt like the most relatable couple to me. But, alas, it wasn't meant to be!

 

[DigificWriter]

You were fine with this last week.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[StefanM]

Bit risky sending Bronn up to kill Tyrion

Not really. Cersei knew, Bronn wouldn't kill Jaime & Tyrion. Bronn risked his life again and again for them, even though he knew, he wasn't rewarded enough. Maybe they needed Bronn as a messenger (sending him back to Cersei with Tyrion's plan)? Maybe Tyrion wants him by his side (in the background)?

You can explain almost EVERYTHING within the current developments of the series.
Maybe even Sansa is part of the conspiracy She gave Tyrion the information he needed against Deanerys, or to start conflict.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes you do. You're just too intellectually fraudulent to admit it.

 

[Mr Awe]

How is signalling to viewers that character relationships and individual character storylines that they invested their time and energy in supporting were meaningless "subverting tropes"?

Here's my take on it. If you're routing for Dany, maybe you should ask yourself why? Why invest in her like that? She says she's a different type of ruler, but in reality, when push comes to shove, she's no different than any other self-entitled tyrant when they don't get their way. So, the series sets it up to make it easy for viewers to support her, but you need to ask yourself why would you support that? She was kind . . . as long as she was getting her way and everyone was bending the knee for her. She was kind . . . as long as you gave her everything and expected nothing. That's all been consistent throughout.

I never really got the love for Dany that many have. She's an interesting character, but not one I'd want to be "friends" with. Talk about a one-way street.

Even with Jon, someone she claims to love, she's dictating how they can live together--by hiding the truth from his family. Not cool.

So, if you've invested so much in her, you should be asking yourself, why? That's the value of subverting tropes--to get you thinking. If you're blindly supporting that "true love," you're missing the point. That kind of blind support leads to tyrannical, unhinged monarchs. It's not good.

The conflict that is happening now was totally signposted and logical, and supposed to get you questioning things.

 

[Kirk Prime]

She doesn't even have to step aside.
As Tyrion said: let the marry and rule together as equals. No problem - except for Daenerys....

A fair point, but as this show is set up, Jon would still be the rightful king. She would not have that power, other than having Jon's ear.

Varys kind of called that out though, noting that she would essentially rule under this scenario because Jon is a wuss when it comes to her. But that wouldn't work for her, because of her lust for power.

 

[DigificWriter]

If this arc for Dany had been as alluded-to as people here are arguing, people would not be lobbing accusations of character assassination at the writing these past 3 episodes.

David and Dan have spent the past several seasons - if not the entire series - building Dany up as a heroic character, only to use the first 3 episodes of this season to try and paint her as an insane tyrant who needs to be taken down for the "greater good", and it's rightfully coming to bite them in the ass along with a number of other complaints and sources of frustration and outrage.

Based on comments and behavior that I have personally seen online, what David and Dan are doing has angered people in a way that goes beyond subverting tropes and expectations.

 

[Jax]

Under the rules couldn't Jon announce who he is and then Abdicate the Throne and just leave it to Dany?

David and Dan have spent the past several seasons - if not the entire series - building Dany up as a heroic character, only to use the first 3 episodes of this season to try and paint her as an insane tyrant who needs to be taken down for the "greater good", and it's rightfully coming to bite them in the ass along with a number of other complaints and sources of frustration and outrage.

Oh please, her darker side has been there from the very start and I've not trusted her ever since the Dragons were born. People are more than capable of leaving their morals behind much quicker than you seem to think and especially when Dany believes the power of the Throne is her divine right.

She's always been this character straddling the line whose anger & rage is clear to see when things get tough. Just because you've not been to see it over the years is not the writers fault. Dany craves power for the sake of power and makes up reasons of how everyone else would benefit under her rule but at the end of the day she wants to rule because she feels it's her divine right over anyone else.

 

[eschaton]

Under the rules couldn't Jon announce who he is and then Abdicate the Throne and just leave it to Dany?

Yes, although I think typically this is only done if someone in line for the throne becomes a Maester or joins the Night's Watch.

 

[StefanM]

A fair point, but as this show is set up, Jon would still be the rightful king. She would not have that power, other than having Jon's ear.

As long as they work well together, that should not be a problem...

 

[StefanM]

Under the rules couldn't Jon announce who he is and then Abdicate the Throne and just leave it to Dany?.

Sure he could.
She's next in line.
Just like Sansa, when Bran would be the real Lord Stark.

 

[Mr Awe]

David and Dan have spent the past several seasons - if not the entire series - building Dany up as a heroic character.

They've also built her up as being self-entitled, delusional, and a bit nuts. To claim otherwise would indicate that you weren't paying attention. Those negative traits have only grown over time.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Dany is only heroic insofar as it served her interests in getting the Iron throne. That is all she has cared about. If she really cared about breaking the wheel, she would have stayed in Essos, where slavery is rife and changed it for the better.

 

[DigificWriter]

Under the rules couldn't Jon announce who he is and then Abdicate the Throne and just leave it to Dany?



Oh please, her darker side has been there from the very start and I've not trusted her ever since the Dragons were born. People are more than capable of leaving their morals behind much quicker than you seem to think and especially when Dany believes the power of the Throne is her divine right.

She's always been this character straddling the line whose anger is clear to see when things get tough. Just because you've not been to see it over the years is not the writers fault.

Dany is Game of Thrones' most popular character.

That didn't happen because people were "not seeing her dark side"; it happened because of the writing and Emelia Clarke's acting, and now that David and Dan are suddenly trying to paint her as the villain, people are angry because it feels like a betrayal of the support they have given the character and the show.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Dany is Game of Thrones' most popular character.

That didn't happen because people were "not seeing her dark side"; it happened because of the writing and Emelia Clarke's acting, and now that David and Dan are suddenly trying to paint her as the villain, people are angry because it feels like a betrayal of the support they have given the character and the show.

Then you and everyone else haven't been paying attention towards how Dany has been portrayed as increasingly ruthless and single-mindedly unhinged in her attempts to get the Iron Throne. Dany has never been a good person. Everything she did, including freeing the slaves and breaking chains was to get back 'her throne' it was never about doing something out the kindness of her heart.

 

[Kirk Prime]

David and Dan have spent the past several seasons - if not the entire series - building Dany up as a heroic character, only to use the first 3 episodes of this season to try and paint her as an insane tyrant who needs to be taken down for the "greater good", and it's rightfully coming to bite them in the ass along with a number of other complaints and sources of frustration and outrage.

Couldn't it be argued that Dany always had this tyrannical side to her? She has been brutal to her enemies, even when it was unjustified. She made general rules rather than case by case decisions. She murdered Tarly's son when all he did was refuse to leave his father's side and neither did anything to warrant the death penalty. Yes, they built her up in general as a hero, but her actions actually didn't show that.

Under the rules couldn't Jon announce who he is and then Abdicate the Throne and just leave it to Dany?

Without using the term "abdicate," Jon's lack of desire for the thrown wouldn't stop the people from demanding he press his claim--even against his wishes. It's one of the things that makes Jon the right person.

Dany sees that he has the hearts and minds of the people, and it threatens her.

Dany is only heroic insofar as it served her interests in getting the Iron throne. That is all she has cared about. If she really cared about breaking the wheel, she would have stayed in Essos, where slavery is rife and changed it for the better.

Very true--and this is consistent with the entire show. I think it's fascinating that they are taking this route. But will Jon end up on the throne? They are doing a great job making it hard to guess.

 

[Jax]

people are angry because it feels like a betrayal of the support they have given the character and the show.

People who are these people? Everyone I know isn't surprised by these turn of events and have been expecting this for some time.

Dany is a good leader good under ideal conditions but since she got to Westeros she has loss more than half her army and 2 Dragons. The person she loves is actually someone whose has a claim to the Iron Throne that supersedes her own. In the last two episodes she lost her closest friends and it's left her desperate and willing to do anything to win. She will attack Kings-Landing putting thousands of lives at risk all so she can become Queen.

People are getting pissy because they want the ending that they created in their minds inbetween their rounds of writing sub standard fan fiction.