Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

[Mr Awe]

A very enjoyable episode. I really enjoyed the camaraderie at the beginning. The Lannister boys finally just hanging out and having a fun time. Jaime and Brienne felt right. Etc. The whole first act was really well done.

With all the tearful farewells for Jon, I'm convinced he's not returning.

However, there is no way in hell their forces are even able to travel south for another conflict right now. That last battle was bruising beyond all imagination.

Jon sure is dumb thinking that the secret will stay a secret and that Dany can remain queen. Consistent characterization. Tyrion continuing to support Dany defies believe though. He's great a political stuff. He should see trouble coming. They've foreshadowed a mad, crazy Dany for long enough that we see it coming, and so should Tyrione. Also, why make him so dumb about Cersei once again. No, she's not going to surrender!! Although, I agree the attempt looks good as described. We gave her a chance to avoid the carnage that is about to happen. But, Tyrion really thought he could convince her. I don't buy that he's so naïve.

They should knock it off with the magical fleet. Although at least in this case they had reason to suspect Dany's fleet was going to take that exact path south to Kings Landing. So, I get them lying in wait. But, for Dany's fleet, sheesh. Idiots. The exact same thing happened last season with a light hearted scene in the fleet followed by a surprise, devastating attack. Dany's fleet should've been on the lookout. With the dragon, they even have aerial reconnaissance. Dany should be flying high looking out for an ambush. Flying high also puts them out of range. Just dumb. And, what a lucky first shot too! Partially dramatic license, but partly stupid character actions. Be on the lookout. Use your dragons for surveillance. Don't bunch your fleet so they can take so many ships out with one surprise attack. And send ahead scouting ships.

And, what kind of dumb negotiation is that?! Having Dany in the line of fire from the castle?! Seriously, I wouldn't put killing Dany on the spot past Cersei. There weren't enough troops there at that point to take the castle.

Another thing I thought off, by killing Missendei and enflaming Greyworm, it guarantees that he'll go in the castle after Cersei even if Dany dies. Normally, he might not have the motivation to inflict such carnage without orders from Dany. But, now, he'll go in there even if Dany buys the farm. Neat way of locking that in even if Dany doesn't survive. And, I'm guessing that there's no way she does.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The trouble with Jon being King is it ignores the warnings of the early seasons. Jon can not deal with the plotting and politics. Maybe, with Tyrion and Varys advising him. He is too much of an idealist to hold power.

I would not be shocked if Dany becomes the Mad Queen. And if that happens, either she kills all our favorites, or Tyrion copies his brother as she screams “Burn them all”.

 

[Mr Awe]

Is Jaime going to join Cersie or kill her?

The episode did seem to try to make that a mystery. However, he's got to be going there to kill Cersei. At this point, there's no way he's joining her. He symbolically switched sides in his own mind when he knighted Brienne who is the polar opposite of Cersei. He's going to clean up the mess he helped make by supporting Cersei all those years.

 

[Mr Awe]

There is absolutely no reason for there to be a simmering and stewing conflict brewing between Danaerys and Jon other than petty melodrama, and yet that's where we are and are clearly going to stay despite all common sense saying that this storyline shouldn't exist.

Are you serious?! Dany has always put her being Queen on the Iron Throne above everything else. She's been ruthless when that's been threatened. Jon is a threat to that even if he doesn't want to be. She's an outsider to Westeros with no real allies that she's built internally on her own. Meanwhile, everyone loves Jon, he brings people together, and he has the better claim to the throne. That pisses her off because it threatens her life long vision of her destiny. To top it off, she tells him to keep it a secret from his family, and he's a family sort of guy. Those are very realistic grounds for conflict!

I'm sorry if you had the misguided hope that they had a happily ever after type of ending. But this is game of thrones and that ending just isn't the norm. Ask Greyworm about that. He and Missendie seemed to be the most normal and happy couple, but they got a typical GoT ending!

For Dany and Jon, they've been foreshadowing this conflict for awhile now. You should've seen it coming.

 

[Mr Awe]

Indeed. I really hope Jon becoming king isn't the ending because that it would be boring and predictable.

I wasn't before, but I'm all aboard the Sansa as queen bandwagon now.

I've been on that bandwagon for awhile. It seems like the most likely outcome given the other probable casualties! Plus, she's a Queen that Tyrion and Varies could fully support as being for the people.

The question is, will Jon have to choosing between Sansa and Dany? It's looking like that's what they're setting up. It's a decision with life and death outcomes I'm imagining.

 

[Mr Awe]

I'm beginning to think Sansa is going to end up ruling from Winterfell

Welcome aboard the Sansa bandwagon!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Picture this though:
Jamie and Cersei kill each other
Dany kills Jon
Dany starts going mad, yelling BURN THEM ALL!
Tyrion kills Dany
Varys steps up and says: “Nevermind, Cersei was the legitimate queen, and we were working against Dany the whole time. Now it falls to her one living relative, Tyrion!”

 

[DigificWriter]

Are you serious?! Dany has always put her being Queen on the Iron Throne above everything else. She's been ruthless when that's been threatened. Jon is a threat to that even if he doesn't want to be. She's an outsider to Westeros with no real allies that she's built internally on her own. Meanwhile, everyone loves Jon, he brings people together, and he has the better claim to the throne. That pisses her off because it threatens her life long vision of her destiny. To top it off, she tells him to keep it a secret from his family, and he's a family sort of guy. Those are very realistic grounds for conflict!

I'm sorry if you had the misguided hope that they had a happily ever after type of ending. But this is game of thrones and that ending just isn't the norm. Ask Greyworm about that. He and Missendie seemed to be the most normal and happy couple, but they got a typical GoT ending!

For Dany and Jon, they've been foreshadowing this conflict for awhile now. You should've seen it coming.

The past 3 episodes isn't "awhile"; and just because they've 'seeded' it doesn't make it a good narrative.

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm still hoping that whoever wins, we see them dragged from the iron throne as part of a popular people's revolution - where normal folk get sick of being prawns.

The series ends with the forming of a worker's committee to democratically rule the People's Republic of Westeros.

 

[eschaton]

Sansa has no claim to the Iron Throne, is a woman (who, as Varys notes, the nobility don't like as monarchs outside of Dorne) and doesn't want the job to boot. Her being queen makes no sense whatsoever.

Friggin Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne, because the Baratheons are - distantly - related to the Targaryians. But Gendry is literate, uneducated, and even dumber than Jon it seems. He'd need to have a very, very capable Hand.

 

[eschaton]

I'm still hoping that whoever wins, we see them dragged from the iron throne as part of a popular people's revolution - where normal folk get sick of being prawns.

The series ends with the forming of a worker's committee to democratically rule the People's Republic of Westeros.

There was this fan theory that in the books Littelfinger was building himself up to be some sort of Napoleon-like figure.

Essentially, since Petyr was from a very minor noble house, he came to loathe the great houses of Westeros. We see in the books he seems to have a very cordial relationship with smallfolk as well. So his real endgame is to have the great houses of Westeros all eliminate one another, and then come up from nowhere as a "champion of the people" - not with a claim to the crown, but a claim to wipe away the crown entirely.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

For all of the silly grumbling over the Starbucks cup, it seems we all missed David and Dan's cameo at Winterfell:

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After seeing the Scorpion prop being built, I really want to watch a special episode of MythBusters were Jamie and Adam build their own to see if it could actually take out a dragon.

 

[Mr Awe]

Jon being King is the logical culmination of the sort of story where Ned Stark wasn’t built up as the show’s moral center and immediately killed.

This point cannot be emphasized enough. Jon will last about as long as Ned did in Kings Landing. Well, it'll probably be shorter! They were both good men but incredibly naïve in terms of politics. Game of Thrones has shown those people will not survive in positions of power in Kings Landing.

I can't foresee the series ending with Jon as King. He either dies, or if they pull a surprise happy ending he goes North with Tormund.

 

[dahj]

Sansa has no claim to the Iron Throne

If Cersei, Dany and Jon are out of the picture nobody has much of a claim.

In that case Sansa has the best prospects, she would have the easiest time of gaining support of 6 out of 7 kingdoms. (North, Riverlands, Vale ans Stormlands are a gimme, and if Tyrion lives and Bronn gets Highgarden that's two more), I don't see any other candidate having anything nearly approaching that level of influence and support as her.

 

[Mr Awe]

The past 3 episodes isn't "awhile"; and just because they've 'seeded' it doesn't make it a good narrative.

They've built this up a longer than three episodes. Apparently you missed a lot!

On Dany's side, they've built this up since the beginning where she was ruthlessly chasing her vision of being Queen on the Iron Throne.

On Jon's side, once we learned his true identity, their conflict was set. It would be out of character for her to step aside. If she doesn't step aside there is conflict. This conflict is further bolstered by Jon's favorable ratings in the North compared to hers. People love him and she's an outsider.

It's all been right there in the show and discussed on this BBS and elsewhere for years now!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Picture this though:
Jamie and Cersei kill each other
Dany kills Jon
Dany starts going mad, yelling BURN THEM ALL!
Tyrion kills Dany
Varys steps up and says: “Nevermind, Cersei was the legitimate queen, and we were working against Dany the whole time. Now it falls to her one living relative, Tyrion!”

That works for me except for that last part. I don't see Varys doing that. Although, based on his final appearance in A Dance of Dragons, maybe that wouldn't be so implausible...

I'm still hoping that whoever wins, we see them dragged from the iron throne as part of a popular people's revolution - where normal folk get sick of being prawns.

The series ends with the forming of a worker's committee to democratically rule the People's Republic of Westeros.

Prawns or pawns? I suppose either could work.

I've seen suggestions of destroying the Iron Throne for the sake of a different form of government. That certain would be the ultimate fantasy trope breaking. I would be good with that if Sansa doesn't become queen.

There was this fan theory that in the books Littelfinger was building himself up to be some sort of Napoleon-like figure.

Essentially, since Petyr was from a very minor noble house, he came to loathe the great houses of Westeros. We see in the books he seems to have a very cordial relationship with smallfolk as well. So his real endgame is to have the great houses of Westeros all eliminate one another, and then come up from nowhere as a "champion of the people" - not with a claim to the crown, but a claim to wipe away the crown entirely.

Yeah, that makes a lot sense and I wouldn't be surprised if his storyline continues to play out that way in the books and not as the series portrayed his endgame, especially considering who Ramsey's actual bride is in the books.

If Cersei, Dany and Jon are out of the picture nobody has much of a claim.

In that case Sansa has the best prospects, she would have the easiest time of gaining support of 6 out of 7 kingdoms. (North, Riverlands, Vale ans Stormlands are a gimme, and if Tyrion lives and Bronn gets Highgarden that's two more), I don't see any other candidate having anything nearly approaching that level of influence and support as her.

Yeah, that's more or less the path I foresee for Sansa's claim.

 

[Mr Awe]

Sansa has no claim to the Iron Throne, is a woman (who, as Varys notes, the nobility don't like as monarchs outside of Dorne) and doesn't want the job to boot. Her being queen makes no sense whatsoever.

Friggin Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne, because the Baratheons are - distantly - related to the Targaryians. But Gendry is literate, uneducated, and even dumber than Jon it seems. He'd need to have a very, very capable Hand.

That's why it's a surprise ending!

Stranger things have happened. Plus, if she marries Tyrion, they can be King and Queen.

And, Cersei is Queen, despite being, obviously, a women and with no real claim. A legitimate claim is only part of the process. The other part is who can build up the power base and allies to take the throne, legitimate claim or not.

Sansa and Tyrion would have the support of the North as well as the Lannister supporting lands. That's a solid base.

 

[eschaton]

In that case Sansa has the best prospects, she would have the easiest time of gaining support of 6 out of 7 kingdoms. (North, Riverlands, Vale ans Stormlands are a gimme, and if Tyrion lives and Bronn gets Highgarden that's two more), I don't see any other candidate having anything nearly approaching that level of influence and support as her.

But she doesn't want it. She just wants to be left alone and be the effective ruler of the North.

It's the same problem Jon has, but Jon at least is technically the rightful heir, a man, and really well liked.

 

[dahj]

But she doesn't want it.

I doubt she'd refuse it if circumstances arise.

 

[Garak]

Dany has got to finally put it together that someone is feeding Cersei information about all their "surprise" attacks - every single time they set out they get ambushed for crying out loud

My money is on Varys and she has him killed or BBQs him with her dragon