Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Nth Doctor, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Except that tht South isn't the Night Kings' main objective.. it's killing Bran and this removing the "racial memory" (if you will) before killing everybody else. He knows that he has a huge strategic advantage with the way his troops work, i.e. he doesn't have to feed him and morale is a non issue on top of being able to easily replenish his numbers for the fallen (and remember that the Winterfell crypts contain tons of dead Starks!)

    So his plan is probably to raze Winterfell, kill Bran and then move on to the rest. How much damage Winterfell can do with its Dragonglass/Valyrian stell weapons and their two dragons is up for debate.

    I'm guessing Winterfell will be overrun and everyone be pushed back to the Godswood where the surviving heroes manage to evacuate Bran at the last moment further South for the Big Battle 2.0 (probably episode 5) where the fate of Bran and the Night King will truly be settled as well as the looming issue with Cersei and her army.

    It could be that Winterfell is intelligent enough to make the White Walkers priority targets and they can now be easily killed by dragon glass tipped arrows and hand weapons. Maybe Winterfell does so much damage to his troops that he is forced to take to the field and assault Bran directly (mind you, he has a Zombie Dragon so the castle walls are a non issue).

    There he encounters Dany and her 2 Dragons, the Iron Born led by Theon and whoever of the heroes manages to survive the battle by that point and retreat to Bran's position.
    I also firmly believe that the Night King also has a few aces up his sleeve.. chief amongst them the huge cemetary right beneath Winterfell that may be an easy troop supply for him (and explain the short trailer scene of Arya being apparently in deep trouble in the crypts).


    The episode was brilliant.. i've had many frustrating discussions and comments of people throughout the years who quickly get bored with character and dialogue driven episodes and just want the action whereas i live for such well made character interactions and the machinations in between the decisive battles. If i just wanted huge fights i'd watch a Michael Bay movie (and do occasionally :D ) but this episode is the hallmark of what Game of Thrones is to me.

    Especially the fireplace scene was pure gold, seeing all these characters sitting there and knowing all their journeys and events that led them to this place is just pure awesome (the same applied to the big meeting scene last season where some characters meet for the first time ever while others meet after years again).

    Points from the episode:

    - Pod
    Damn, son! That was some awesome singing (and now we know what he did to all those ladies back then.. he sang for them! :D ). Also i love how they finally show him being competent at fighting. It always bothered me a bit in previous seasons when they showed him as a sort fo fool who gets constantly humiliated but then again he apparently paid attention and now look at thim.. his own badass legend in the making (might not be able to take it up with Brienne or the Hound just yet but he's good enough). Nice to finally see Brienne smile at Podrick's advancement, knowing he paid attention and improved significantly. I guess Pod won't remain a squire for long, especially if he makes it through the battle of Winterfell.

    - Arya
    Get some girl! ;) It's good for her and i hope it's not just out of "research curiosity" but a genuine need to feel a connection with someone she actually cares about. Arya has been through some horrible years that may have turned her stone cold and into an effective killer but whenever she is confronted by humanity (such as with the scene in season 7 where she discovers those Lannister soldiers and realizes that despite wearing her enemies' colors they are still regular people and don't deserve death) she stops in her tracks and doesn't know how to be human anymore.
    I wonder, if she makes it that is, what will happen if finally no one is on her list anymore.. will she be able to lay down her weapons and start to find some happiness (maybe with Gendry)?

    - Future Drama

    Well.. 2 huge drama points incoming and it all involves Dany and he singular, one can say manic, drive to be ruler of the seven (not six!) kingdoms. Loved the sit down with Sansa, it was a mature thing to do to adress and talk about the issue and bring it out in the open. It was good to see Sansa realing her mistake when they first met and Dany explaining herself until they hit the elephant in the room. Depending on the outcome of the batte this will remain at the core of the problem with Dany, i.e. he singular and obsessive need to be ruler. I also don't believe anymore that she does this out of the goodness of her intentions, to break the wheel as she put it several seasons back, she is now at a point where she is not that much different than most rules that came before her (maybe a bit more humanitarian than others).

    This will be her second problem when she deals with Jon's revelation (i don't think the incest thing came up immediately but her reaction was due to suddenly there being a stronger claim to the throne than her's which pull out the rug from underneath her entire life).
    Jon is most likely not very interested in the Iron Throne itself, if at all however (conveniently ;) ) he has no time to explain this as they are cut short on this discussion. Sensible thing for them would be to let the North secede and become independent while marrying Jon and thus binding the North to the 6 Kingdoms.

    And yeah.. when do people actually do the sensible thing? :D I believe the ending will be completely different to everyone's expectations so all this may fly out of the window in the next few episodes and i can't wait to see it!
     
  2. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I did say that I think they'd just defeat the forces in Winterfell. Bran just adds to that reasoning. I think they'll defeat Winterfell. Bran and some of the others are likely to escape but at great cost. That will be the major triumph of the episode in an otherwise grim tale. That's my speculation.
     
  3. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dany can‘t let the north secede.
    It would set precedent.
    It‘s one thing to not be powerful enough to do anything about it like Cersei, but allow them to?
    That will just be encouragement for 5 other kingdoms to throw of the shackles of King‘s Landing for good?
    And then we‘d be back at 7 kingdoms warring with each other to expand their influence and power.
     
  4. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I agree with your excellent analysis, particularly all your points about Podrick and Arya. At this point, I fully expect heavy losses during the battle, Podrick among them. But I'll be blissfully happy if Podrick does indeed survive. Sometimes the good ones survive? Maybe?
     
  5. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, Dany did want to break the wheel did she? As i said marrying Jon as the defacto leader of the Northern Kingdom would still let her rule somewhat and it would appease the Northerners.

    Hell, maybe she'll introduce democracy to Westeros as a great new concept and be the first person people can vote for :D
     
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  6. Sketcher

    Sketcher Captain Captain

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    Wasn't Dany ok with letting the Iron Islands secede from her rule?
     
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  7. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think Sam influenced Jon. After their talk Jon is starting to think that he will make a better, more compassionate ruler than Dany, and if he has a better claim due to his birthright then maybe he should go for it.
     
  8. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Maybe. Then again, he's the same guy who has always refused the leadership role until it was thrust upon with no other choice.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Jon would make a better ruler than Dany, but pursuing it would cause more people to die than if he gave it to Dany. It all depends whether Dany relents on allowing the North to stay independent.

    Something occurred to me about last season. If they just needed a zombie to show Cersei, why not just go a few steps north of the wall, kill a criminal in a cage, and then wait?
     
  10. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    I would love to see Tyrion deliver an arrow to Dany's gut while she's on the shitter.
     
  11. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Admiral

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    ^^^ Killing someone beyond The Wall is not enough, they have to be raised by either the Night King or a White Walker.
     
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  12. Naira

    Naira Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Meh... For me, it was the most boring episode ever, and I've just seen them all in a row during the last few months, so that says a lot.

    I don't like the writing as much since the book contents ended, but that is ok, I don't expect everything to be super exiting all the time. However, things seem to rushed by now and characters such as Tyrion and Dany are downright weird. The only character that has actually improved is Sansa.

    I honestly do now know if the writers had any way to wrap things up in a decent way. It doesn't really seem so. I like this show, I hope we don't end with a disaster last season a la House of Cards.
     
  13. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    A great character driven episode. A e o say goodbye to characters who probably are going to die. The scene where Brienne finally gets knighted was great
     
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  14. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Admiral

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    I am not sure if I should be pleased with my place in the Wikiofthrones GoT Death Pool. I am in 431st place out of 17477 contestants. The leading score is 164 but my score is only 79 :( Next week should make a huge difference to everyone’s scores.
     
  15. Spider

    Spider Dirty Old Man Premium Member

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    Just wondering (because I can't keep all the family lines straight) now that we know Jon's true heritage, is he still related by blood to Sansa? They'd make a nice couple for the Iron Throne.
     
  16. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes. Jon's mother is Sansa's aunt so they're cousins.
     
  17. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Specifically, Lyanna, Jon's mother, was Ned Stark's sister.
     
  18. Spider

    Spider Dirty Old Man Premium Member

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    Hummmm......Not seeing a real difference between Jon and Dani and Jon and Sansa then. Especially on this show. LOL
     
  19. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, one major difference is that Jon and Sansa were raised as siblings, Dany and Jon.... weren't.
     
  20. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, there is no romantic attraction between Jon and Arya. There love and affection is purely that of siblings. Jon was the only one of her siblings who understood Arya when she was a child.