Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Nth Doctor, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    The season needed more episodes. Varys’ death in particular seemed like it was rushed, for the first time he wasn’t careful with information.

    And Jamie and Cersei needed to make it farther and be killed by a person, not a collapsing tunnel.

    And if the decision to burn the entire city wasn’t a fear tactic, it would have worked better if she had at least looked like she was only targeting the army and the castle.
     
    Gary7 and 137th Gebirg like this.
  2. SJGardner

    SJGardner Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Location:
    In the center of Europe
    I agree, and in retrospect I should've used the word "reason" for it, as we've seen the reasons that caused her to unravel. I meant to say it was unclear what exactly caused her to snap in that moment. But you're right, the seeds were there with her losing everything and everyone she held dear and realizing no one wanted her to rule. I just felt that the execution of her unraveling was too rushed and shows why seven and six episodes were way too few for the last two seasons. I tend to agree with those who opine it would've been better to have something like Rhaegal's death happen during the battle to serve as an overt last straw.

    To make it clear, I'm making comparisons to Tywin et al because at the very least that part of the message came through to me - that if you look at who she really is and what she's already done even before murdering a million people, she's been just as reprehensible as Tywin all along, and I think this was the intended purpose of the character from the start: to make you realize how apparent heroism is only a matter of perception and to make you look back and ask yourself how many of her crimes you've let slide just because you sympathized with her and wanted her to succeed. But I'd still say she was clearly out of her gourd after the bells rang and I would've preferred to see a more believable, direct cause for her finally snapping. But we might still learn something new to get the full context in the finale (and of course if A Dream of Spring finally comes out and we get to read her inner monologue), so who knows.
     
    Mr Awe likes this.
  3. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    The issue with the prequels is how far back they can go. I believe the one HBO settled on is a Long Night Prequel. For an origin of the White Walkers. Immediately problems arise. Only the First Men and Wildlings were in the North at the time. No Andals. So, the Starks and other ancient North families. GRRM said there were no Lannisters, no Targaryans (who would one day occupy Valerya), no dragons, no Kings Landing, and no Dorne. It's pretty slim pickings going back that far.

    They'd be better off doing a Robert's Rebellion prequel or a Doom of Valyria or Aegon, Visenya and Rhanerys conquest of Westeros series. At least most of the players, family names and locations we are familiar with would be accessible to use.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    137th Gebirg, SJGardner and Gary7 like this.
  4. Gary7

    Gary7 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Location:
    ★•* The Paper Men *•★
    Well, that's as far as we know from the original books... but the video series could take some artistic license, as it did with GoT (going beyond the published novels). There were "First Men," remember? The Children of the Forest were being threatened and displaced by them... hence the choice to create the Night King to vanquish them (which unfortunately goes horribly wrong). So, theoretically, those First Men could have a deep breadth of content written about them. Their own cities that existed prior to the major kingdoms of Westeros. Of course, it would take the creativity of GRRM to come up with a compelling story arc, much as he did with GoT.

    The Lord of the Rings trilogy took place in a Middle Earth period reminiscent of our Medieval times. It was a huge success that spawned a bunch of copycats. CW11 churned out a few (real winners, sarcastically speaking). Even a Hobbit movie series follow-on that was pretty popular. So the appetite for this period genre wasn't exhausted yet. Is it enough already with GoT wrapping up? Are people hungry enough, lamenting the end of GoT and wanting more? If Martin can create a rich enough story for screenplays to drive a captivating prequel, it'll be key to create a different enough story line and arcs in order to make it a success. A "repeat" of GoT just cast in a different time period would be humdrum.
     
    M.A.C.O. likes this.
  5. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spacial anomaly
    I'm not interested in the story content of the prequel if it's The Long Night (at least on paper) but I'll at least check it out for the cast they produced so far.

    I would be far more interested in Valyria and its eventual doom.
     
  6. Gary7

    Gary7 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Location:
    ★•* The Paper Men *•★
    There is that matter of translating book to screen... and screenplay writers may use that with great liberty, or create some other offshoot using various key premises. I don't know enough about Martin and the degree of control he has over this work. He may have signed over enough leeway for an alternate "Long Night" to be written, given how handsomely rich he has come away from GoT. Even though the GoT writers went beyond Martin, he was involved all the way up through the end. So there may be a certain "magic touch" he brings to it all that may be necessary for the follow-on production.
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    I think the Dance of the Dragons or the Blackfyre Rebellion would have made for more interesting prequels.
     
    SJGardner likes this.
  8. Gary7

    Gary7 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Location:
    ★•* The Paper Men *•★
    You know what was really missing in Episode 5? A nice calming interlude. Imagine Cersei on a harp.
     
  9. SJGardner

    SJGardner Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Location:
    In the center of Europe
    The first three songs my spotify playlist gave me on shuffle tonight:

    Maniac (Flashdance)
    Queen & David Bowie: Under Pressure
    Bon Jovi: Blaze of Glory.

    Damn you, Random Number God, taunting me with your heavy-handed Daenerys references :lol:
     
    Random_Spock likes this.
  10. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The characters still alive for the final episode:
    The Starks: Sansa, Arya, Bran
    Targaryens: Dany, Aegon/Jon
    Lannisters are down to one (Tyrion), same as Greyjoys (Yara)
    Davos
    Gendry
    Tormund
    Sam
    Gilly
    Bronn
    Brienne
    Podrick
    Greyworm
     
    Seven of Five likes this.
  11. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    It should end with Jon tossing the Iron Throne into a vat to be melted down, so that no one is Queen or King of the Andals and the First Men. The 7 Kingdoms go back to being separate and free. Sansa, Queen in the North, Yara Queen of the Iron Islands, King Tyrion at Casterly Rock, make Davos King of something, etc And Jon goes North to live with the Free Folk where he seems happiest. The End.
     
  12. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    That sounds like a great idea except the Seven Kingdom's kings were assholes themselves.
     
  13. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    So is Dany burning Kings Landing the 3rd "holy shit" moment that GRRM told D&D? Or is that still to come in the final episode.
     
  14. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Yeah, it solves nothing. Hell, worse than that, because some of the constituent kingdoms - like Dorne and The Reach - have been basically untouched by war, meaning they have plenty of manpower available to occupy some territory in the other kingdoms (just not enough to fight a war across Westeros).
     
  15. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Location:
    West of the Moon, East of the Sun
    for a while there, I thought Arya would be using the escape route to leave the city (her finding it while chasing cats in season 1), find a a dead or dying Jaime, do her face-stealling trick and end up closing the green eyes after all.
     
  16. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    So were the Mad King, Joffrey, Cersei and the new Mad Queen. That's a separate problem. Tyrion needs to write a Magna Carta and take Westeros in the direction of modernity, checks and balances, Parliament, rule of law. But that might be a ways off. In the meantime, better the power be divided than consolidated under one absolute rule.
     
  17. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Better divided power among several than consolidated under one absolute despot. If Tyrion wants to found Parliament and start checking royal power, thats fine. But one absolute dictator isn't better.
     
    publiusr and LaxScrutiny like this.
  18. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    It's important to note that all of the Free Cities of Essos are non-monarchial. Mostly they are oligarchies, but Volantis is actually a true representative democracy (albeit one where only free property owners can vote, though both men and women can vote and run for office).
     
    137th Gebirg likes this.
  19. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I'll go out on a limb here and say no. The last one is meant to be at the very end, right? I'm not going to try and predict what mindfuck they've got in store for the finale.
     
  20. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    If Dany were to simply take the Iron Throne and rule, she doesn't break the Wheel, she keeps it turning. At the end of her reign either her heir takes over, or another usurper with military power.

    The only way to break the Wheel and the Game is to break the Iron Throne. That is the opposite to anything she intended right from the start. Basically she was always kidding herself that she would change anything.

    Hypothetically, the only "happy ending" would be if she spared the populace, went straight for the Red Keep, destroyed the Throne and Cersie both, and declared the Empire dead and left the individual kingdoms to rule themselves, have skirmishes over borders for a few generations, and then come up with a stable trade agreement. Meanwhile she and Jon could move North and live a quiet life with the Wildlings.

    Of course this was never going to happen, there is no happy ending here, but taking the throne was not a path to peace and prosperity, just a continuation of what has gone on for generations. She never had any plan or vision other than her taking back the throne.

    As far as a real life analogy, Westeros could not move immediately to democracy, it would move from Medieval to Renaissance rule, and then beyond. If there was a way to skip that step she sure didn't know about it.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019