Unsurprisingly, Martin has shot down the theory that he's sitting on two complete books, noting how absurd it is because there's no way international publishers would go for it (huh, sounds familiar).
Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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I suspect some of the constraints aren't just HBO. A season is a commitment for the actors, many of whom I suspect want to do something else other than just Game of Thrones. I'm sure all of the younger ones are anxious to launch their movie careers... Which... yeah.
But. The actor's contracts were renewed and renegotiated, and I'm sure some where all, I'll do just a little more, but, mate, it's time to move on.
Yeah. Agreed. And I would think Martin would want HIS version out before the HBO one...
You, know. I just realized I missed the context of Varys talking to the Little Bird in the opening scene. The girl worked in the kitchen and told Varys that Dany wasn't eating. The little girl was worried about the risk to herself and Varys reassured her the greater the risk, the greater the reward. I thought she was just spying for him, but I think Varys was plotting to have Dany poisoned and killed. Thereby leaving the throne open for Jon.
That would've made for a more satisfying reason of Dany executing Varys, than him telling everyone Jon's secret.
That would've made for a more satisfying reason of Dany executing Varys, than him telling everyone Jon's secret.
That's not how they feel at all, though.
They're actually proud of how they've ended the series while simultaneously expecting their audience to hate it, and so the fact that they're going to be on vacation and away from the backlash speaks to their lack of balls in facing the consequences of their decisions like men.
I am curious about this idea that the show's creators are expecting a huge audience backlash. Maybe it's because the show won't end the way that most fans want it to end? Maybe, Jon Snow won't end up on the Iron Throne? And in some ways, we are seeing that backlash already begin with a lot of fans hating on what Daenerys did, burning all of King's Landing to the ground even after it's surrender, because they wanted Daenerys to be a heroic liberator. Or maybe the finale will be something controversial like ending on a cliffhanger and so fans won't get a sense of closure. I know that always pisses off fans who want a satisfying ending. This is a real possibility considering that there is only one episode left to wrap up all the loose ends. That might be hard to do without rushing things or leaving some things still open.
Well, I guess we will find out when we watch the finale.
Perhaps seeing at close quarters the utter chaos that unfolded Arya now has a new target...Jon.
After all it is essentially his weakness that has allowed Dany to wreak the whirlwind of terror that she has.The scene where he stood back and let her fry Varys shows that this guy is no hero.
After all it is essentially his weakness that has allowed Dany to wreak the whirlwind of terror that she has.The scene where he stood back and let her fry Varys shows that this guy is no hero.
To be honest, I never liked Romeo and Juliet! But, I mentioned in a part of my comment you didn't quote that I do understand Jaime's actions as a relapse. And then you posted your experiences, which was very powerful. I salute you for staying sober. And, you're absolutely right, that's the lens through which to understand Jamie's actions.
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Yeah, I mean, I've known people who have had an unhealthy love/obsession with someone who was bad for them. Jamie is entirely believable as a person.
The central thing to remember though is he doesn't really subvert his previous arc in any other matter. He doesn't do a single bad thing as part of his quest to rescue Cersei. He doesn't help anyone, but he doesn't hurt anyone either (not counting Euron deciding to be an idiot). He makes one jerkaass comment about the people of Kings Landing to Tyrion, but I just read this as him putting the same jerkass mask on that he wore for much of the show - Jamie often pretends to be a worse person than he really is.
The central thing to remember though is he doesn't really subvert his previous arc in any other matter. He doesn't do a single bad thing as part of his quest to rescue Cersei. He doesn't help anyone, but he doesn't hurt anyone either (not counting Euron deciding to be an idiot). He makes one jerkaass comment about the people of Kings Landing to Tyrion, but I just read this as him putting the same jerkass mask on that he wore for much of the show - Jamie often pretends to be a worse person than he really is.
In an interview before the season started, one of the creators said that no matter how the show ends, there will be fans that like what happens and those who don't agree with story decisions and be upset. And as such, he was gonna go overseas for a bit while the final episodes were airing. He was obviously correct as there is a massive crybaby contingent the likes of which we haven't seen since George Lucas supposedly raped everyone's childhood with the prequel trilogy. The other creator said he was just gonna get drunk.
After having time to process the previous episode a bit more, I'm feeling better about it. I enjoyed it at the moment but felt a little dissatisfaction that I couldn't quite pin down. I think there's two major parts of that dissatisfaction.
1. The show's ending. We've watched these characters for so long and been through so many things with them, and now their stories are ending. There's always some sadness with that.
2. There was a bit of rushing. The biggest offenders for me personally are that I expected the conflict with the Night King to be a war, not a single battle. And, the same with Cersie--a war rather than a single battle. And for both "wars" there appeared to be build up and positioning of resources, the potential for strategy, etc. Instead we got two quick battles that resolved each conflict quickly. Much of that build up had been ditched for the quick battle.
However, I can imagine the HBO bean counters as well other practical considerations (e.g., the actors) said that, no, we're not doing two more wars! So, that wasn't realistically going to happen.
I'm ok with what we got. I think we got to the same general plot points, not as fully detailed, and that we reached a lot of logical end points for characters. Still have to see the finale of course. So, I'm good with where things are right now.
1. The show's ending. We've watched these characters for so long and been through so many things with them, and now their stories are ending. There's always some sadness with that.
2. There was a bit of rushing. The biggest offenders for me personally are that I expected the conflict with the Night King to be a war, not a single battle. And, the same with Cersie--a war rather than a single battle. And for both "wars" there appeared to be build up and positioning of resources, the potential for strategy, etc. Instead we got two quick battles that resolved each conflict quickly. Much of that build up had been ditched for the quick battle.
However, I can imagine the HBO bean counters as well other practical considerations (e.g., the actors) said that, no, we're not doing two more wars! So, that wasn't realistically going to happen.
I'm ok with what we got. I think we got to the same general plot points, not as fully detailed, and that we reached a lot of logical end points for characters. Still have to see the finale of course. So, I'm good with where things are right now.
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Yeah, I was a bit bothered by that but, as you said, there were certainly practical restraints (and not just downsizing the last two seasons), so I'm ultimately okay with it. Besides, I imagine we'll get a far better sense of both of them as wars in the books, if and when Martin finishes the final two books.
Are there any long-running series whose endings aren't at least a little bit pants? Maybe the journey usually offers more enjoyment and fulfillment than the final destination.
I actually haven't read the books. I'll consider reading them if Martin ever completes the series!
It is a bit odd. From the post season 3 commentary, I was under the impression D&D were given blanks checks by HBO (parent company WB) to make the show the way they wanted it. But we also hear of CGI complaints for Ghost being expensive.
I think it's more that D&D mismanaged their money and ran out to do other things. For instance, the BOTB was an original creation by the show runners to show off Kit Harrington. In the same way the Dorne arc (the 7 day shoot in a Medieval Islamic palace/museum) was to show off Indira Varma/Ellaria Sand. In the commentary, they admit doing Dorne was last minute addition and very expensive. Not to mention the constraints of trying to film in a museum, and only during day time hours.
There was a lot of hype about the Battle of Winterfell, and how it was going to be the biggest thing on television. With real actors and a lot of horses and feature film type budget. Just like with the BOTB, which was touted as having 70 live horses (more than LOTR), that's a lot of money to spend.. Effects, costumes, training the actors, training the animals, shoot days, bad weather days, location etc.
I think D&D shot their bolt on episode 3 and then just CGI'ed Drogon laying waste to CGI Kings Landing, CGI Iron Fleet and the CGI Golden Company for episode 5. With reuse of shots of extras in flames and other extras running around the sets and sound stages.
When thinking about not just the finale but also the final season, The Americans, Breaking Bad, and The Wire all come immediately to mind. I would also argue M*A*S*H, Deep Space Nine, and Futurama. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I loved LOST's final season, including the finale. I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting about.
That's fair. If I hadn't read the books in between seasons three and four, I would probably think the same, but at the time, it seemed reasonably likely he would finish them in a timely a fashion. It looks more doubtful now.
No one ever gets a blank check in the entertainment industry (or any other industry). It's always about return on investment (ROI). Factor in the tendency of a series' cost to increase over time along with the diminishing marginal returns over time, and series will reach end points even when they're very popular. You also have to factor in that the actors might want to move on to other projects. There are many practical reasons for ending a series that don't involve mismanaging money.
I don't know exactly what combination of factors is at play here, but apparently things didn't align to get us the extra seasons/episodes.
That definitely seemed like a reasonable assumption at that time!! I hope he still manages to finish them!
The Shield and Six Feet Under. Excellent final seasons with incredible finales.
Wow dany really lost it.
Best scène for me was the last scène between Arya and Sandor
Best scène for me was the last scène between Arya and Sandor
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