It is pretty disturbing that the actual writers and director didn't realize they were making a rape scene when, on screen, it very obviously was.
Game of Thrones 4.4 - "Oathkeeper" - Rate and discuss
- Thread starter Out Of My Vulcan Mind
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Yep. Woman says no multiple times, man doesn't stop. Pretty damn unambiguous.
Agreed. She seemed definitely in command when they were speaking.
Yeah, when I first saw it I definitely thought so as well. But then I was wondering if that's part of the way that Jaime and Cersei's love making goes. You can see in a couple other scenes that he is somewhat violent and dominant, while Cersei plays a more submissive, helpless-type role. She probably didn't consider it rape, even though it obviously appears that way to us. And her thoughts in that regard seem to be clear given the tone of their conversation in this episode. She's dominant everywhere but the sack.
It's not the first time a scene in a show or movie has been taken completely different than the way the creators intended.
It won't be the last.
Well to be fair in this instance, I think the writer was simply trying to make clear just what sick fucks these guys were in comparison to the usual Nights Watch. So when Bran and the others get captured later we have even more reason to fear for their safety.
The same thing happened With Mary and Pamuk in Downton abbey.
I think they were probably hoping that by having Cersei kiss him back at the very end, it would make people feel a bit more okay with it. Unfortunately when she DID resist, it was so forceful and powerful a moment that it ended up overshadowing everything else in the scene.
Spike's attempted rape of Buffy comes to mind. Marty Noxxon wrote it to reflect an experience she had where she was trying to reconnect with a man who had rejected her by assuming he'd come around once she started hugging and kissing him. In her real-life experience, he pushed her away and she was crushed. This is how she envisioned the scene with Buffy and Spike when she wrote it, but the director took it farther, the actors took it farther, and the final scene comes off as Spike trying to rape Buffy, much to everyone's discomfort.
In last night's show, "....fuck these bitches until they're dead.." is harsh even for GoT. Robert Maxwell is right - the rape scenes are getting way overused for their shock value.
That wasn't the case of the director or the actors taking anything farther. It was written as an attempted rape, referenced as an attempted rape (with the word even explicitly used in the very next episode by Xander), the characters reacted to it as an attempted rape, and it was intended to be something that Spike would feel so guilty over that it would make him decide to go and fight to get his soul back so he would be a better man.
None of this is the case here - it's not treated as a rape in the show and everyone is acting as if nothing happened.
Another ratings record this week- 6.9 million viewers for the first showing.
I don't think it's necessarily for "shock" value. I think it's just them being a bit lazy in the writting room and this is their goto method for showing "evil men".
I liked this episode better than the previous one.
I am probably in a minority here, but I don't think Jaime is an entirely bad guy. While he was imprisoned he had a lot of time to think about his life. Also, the time he spent with Brienne might have given him a different perspective. And all the time he fought to get his old life back just to find out that his old life is gone. Point being, his whole life has changed, maybe he did, too - or is going to in future episodes. So, when he gave Brienne the sword - really nice scene btw - I don't think that it was just about keeping his oath. Maybe he wanted to the right thing because he wants to be more than the kingslayer and the attacker of a little boy. That being said, I haven't read the books, so I've got no idea how his story develops there.
I am probably in a minority here, but I don't think Jaime is an entirely bad guy. While he was imprisoned he had a lot of time to think about his life. Also, the time he spent with Brienne might have given him a different perspective. And all the time he fought to get his old life back just to find out that his old life is gone. Point being, his whole life has changed, maybe he did, too - or is going to in future episodes. So, when he gave Brienne the sword - really nice scene btw - I don't think that it was just about keeping his oath. Maybe he wanted to the right thing because he wants to be more than the kingslayer and the attacker of a little boy. That being said, I haven't read the books, so I've got no idea how his story develops there.
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Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
It's starting to get a little creepy to be honest. But the books are sort of like this too, I sometimes get the sense GRRM had one hand down his own pants when writing some parts of the book.
This one was a notch below the first three episodes in my opinion. It had some strong scenes, and the final scene was great (and an eye-opener!), but the Craster's Keep sequence dragged and the inclusion of on screen rape was a bad idea, particularly since it included nudity (something I think needs to be handled very carefully, if done at all, in scenes of sexual violence). They could have made it clear that the women were being brutalized without actually showing it.
