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Game of Thrones 4.4 - "Oathkeeper" - Rate and discuss

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Out Of My Vulcan Mind

Out Of My Vulcan Mind

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Rate and discuss (with spoilers for the episode, but not for forthcoming episodes) "Oathkeeper", airing on the 27th April on HBO and on the 28th April on Sky Atlantic.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2leyatpoRBU[/yt]
 
Ya know, that metal right hand of Jamie's would be a great benefit in a fight if he'd learn to use it as a weapon, instead of letting other people use it as a weapon. :lol:

For one thing it'd be ideal for parrying a sword swing.
 
Above average. Some good stuff. Some changes from the novels. Keeping a good pace.

Tommen may be in a for an interesting experience
 
Unnecessarily so, I think.

Cogman knows his source material well, and it shows, but some of this filler and deviation is making me scratch my head. This episode felt like it had no real central thread and was just a lot of moving pieces around, some much quicker than necessary.
 
I thought the scene with the White Walkers was gorgeous and chilling, expertly portraying the atmosphere of them from the book despite it not being an actual scene from it.
 
I thought it was a fine episode, though the slaves took over that city rather quickly. I expected at least a cut-away to somewhere else, then after a scene or two, we'll cut back to a captured city. Instead, we only get to see one master killed. Other than that, I enjoyed it. This episode added a lot of new twists and turns.
 
So yeah, major deviation from the books with Bran's storyline, eh? But I guess since they already exhausted his ASoS storyline last season, they need to give him SOMETHING to do for this season.

And it's pretty much a certainty now that the kid at Castle Black will end up shooting and killing Ygritte during the battle.
 
You know, I do enjoy this show, but I'm getting a little tired of the writers/directors opting to punch up some scenes by adding rape. Turning the scene with Jaime and Cersei last week into a rape, and then this week's "all rape, all the time" mutineer party at Craster's Keep, I couldn't have imagined someone would read these books and think, "You know what we need here? More rape."

Not only that, but the head mutineer was just so one-note evil, which feels out of place in a series that thrives on ambiguity. That storyline was a complete waste of time except for the bit at the end.
 
^^^ Was thinking the exact same thing. Never expected anything like that. And I actually like that they're throwing in new things to keep everyone, including the readers, guessing. The Bran storyline has indeed taken an interesting turn as well.

So does this mean that the "ruling class" of the White Walkers are comprised of Craster's sons? I would assume that, now that this is the "last one", that they will begin their primary advance towards the wall, as it's only all been skirmishes and one-off's to this point, with the possible single exception of the assault at the Fist.
 
137th Gebirg said:
^^^ Was thinking the exact same thing. Never expected anything like that. And I actually like that they're throwing in new things to keep everyone, including the readers, guessing. The Bran storyline has indeed taken an interesting turn as well.

So does this mean that the "ruling class" of the White Walkers are comprised of Craster's sons? I would assume that, now that this is the "last one", that they will begin their primary advance towards the wall, as it's only all been skirmishes and one-off's to this point, with the possible single exception of the assault at the Fist.
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I'm assuming that Others can only be made from newborn babies, in which case it wouldn't just be Craster's kids that are potential Others.

However, we do have the interesting angle that Gilly's baby may be important somehow, since it would be related by blood to (presumably) most/all Others.
 
I'm starting to agree that the rape scenes are becoming overused as a shock plot method. We get it - during mid evil times women got raped a lot and were second class citizens. Lets move on writers.

Additionally, the Dany plot of freeing the slaves and becoming more and more of a hard ass is getting old too. Lets move forward with her.

I'd give this episode a B.

The ending scene was a shocker. I was afraid they were going to leave an infant to die in the snow which like the rape scenes IMO would be a little too much even for HBO for most audiences to handle.

Can someone explain the role of the White Walkers contextually to the storyline overall - in spoiler code please. I haven't read the book. Thanks.
 
DarthTom said:
Additionally, the Dany plot of freeing the slaves and becoming more and more of a hard ass is getting old too. Lets move forward with her.
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That should be coming soon.

The ending scene was a shocker. I was afraid they were going to leave an infant to die in the snow which like the rape scenes IMO would be a little too much even for HBO for most audiences to handle.
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Well, it wouldn't be this show's first dead baby, but they've had more rapes than dead babies, easily!

Can someone explain the role of the White Walkers contextually to the storyline overall - in spoiler code please. I haven't read the book. Thanks.
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Humanity fought a war against them thousands of years ago and supposedly wiped them out. The books haven't gotten far enough to indicate what's going on with them, though it's assumed they will take advantage of winter and attempt to conquer Westeros. The final scene of last night's episode is not from the books at all but presumably based on discussions with Martin about his plans for the series.
 
Thanks Robert Maxwell. That's interesting. Regarding Dany, the slow build-up to the inevitable big fiale ending with a giant battle over Kingslanding.

Another observation about last night's episode - Jamie has obviously become morally ambigious at best. One day a rapist the next week he's the hero having compassion even for Sansa which from their point of view is the most likely of Jeoffry's killers - or at a minimum somehow complicit in it.
 
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DarthTom said:
Thanks Robert Maxwell. That's interesting. Regarding Dany, the slow build-up to the inevitable big fiale ending with a giant battle over Kingslanding.

Another observation about last night's episode - Jamie has obviously become morally ambigious at best. One day a rapist the next week he's the hero having compassion even for Sansa which from their point of view is the most likely of Jeoffry's killers.
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Jaime wasn't "morally ambiguous" when he shoved Bran from a window?!

Just because Jaime has something of an honor code doesn't mean he's a good (or even sort-of good) person, any more than the Hound is. Remember, the Hound killed people on command, and not always in the course of warfare. He's literally a hired killer. Jaime, for his part, attempted to murder a child to cover up an incestuous affair, murdered his cousin and one of the Karstarks to enable his (failed) escape, and most recently raped his own sister because she spurned him. Yeah, so he feels like he needs to keep his promise to Catelyn Stark. So what? Charles Manson has beliefs and an ethical code one might consider somewhat reasonable, too. That doesn't mean they are particularly redeemable or admirable.

Jaime has exhibited both great moral cowardice and moments of profound cruelty and depraved indifference to human life. Every once in a while, he does the right thing. That doesn't wash away his sins, so to speak.

I'll note that it's essentially Brienne who is going to do all the work of fulfilling his oath to Cat.

As for Dany...

Let's just say that, if the show follows the books at all, there will be another (possible) Targaryen in the mix, so it's not as simple as Dany sailing to Westeros to take over.
 
Robert Maxwell said:
Jaime has exhibited both great moral cowardice and moments of profound cruelty and depraved indifference to human life. Every once in a while, he does the right thing. That doesn't wash away his sins, so to speak.
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That's true and good points. It's worth remembering that in Star Wars Luke seemed ready to forgive Vader's many, "sins," or at least his death scene leads one to that conclusion. And Vader - as a character - was a mass murder in comparison to Jamie's deeds.

But GoT is far more complicated and well written than anything Lucas ever has done.
 
DarthTom said:
Thanks Robert Maxwell. That's interesting. Regarding Dany, the slow build-up to the inevitable big fiale ending with a giant battle over Kingslanding.

Another observation about last night's episode - Jamie has obviously become morally ambigious at best. One day a rapist the next week he's the hero having compassion even for Sansa which from their point of view is the most likely of Jeoffry's killers - or at a minimum somehow complicit in it.
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According to this NCW interview, originally in Swedish, it was not intended as a rape scene.

So, as many of us suspected with those contradictory Alex Graves statements, it was not a part of the plan to portray him as a rapist - they just screwed up monumentally.

Anyway, I think that the writers are generally having trouble with the Jaime/Cersei relationship this season and that they way it's presented in the show (as opposed to the book, where Cersei doesn't immediately reject Jaime just because he has lost his hand) does a huge disservice to both characters and their arcs. NCW says that their relationship is "extremely complicated", but so far it doesn't seem like that on the show.
 
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