Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

She reiterated the reason for her hatred of Clegane when she accused him of riding down and murdering Mycah the innocent stable boy in front of the Brotherhood Without Banners. That, and his general association as the primary protector of the boy (Joffrey) who ordered her father's death.

Yeah, but he explained to her that he didn't have any real choice about killing her friend. If he refused to do that, he'd be killed and the boy would have still been killed. What did she expect him to do? I think she hates him for things that he didn't really have much of a choice about. The only reason why I think he was able to abandon him post protecting the "king" is because it was during a war and he was probably presumed dead afterward.

Yeah, I understand why you're blinking, but that's still my reaction. I expected that it would be more of a battle and slaughter than it was. Pretty much everyone had left the room, the "Rains of Castamere" starts playing, and people are picked off like sheep with a few words thrown in. It was a nice episode, but I guess I just expected more.

That's what the Red Wedding is. It's not a battle. It's a massacre.

I get that, but it's just that it didn't really seem that way to me. I don't know. It felt a little flat. It was still good, though. An average GoT episode is like a B+ for a lot of other series out there. So, I'm not complaining.

Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

He killed her friend, I think that is just cause. I mean at least for her.

I guess I'll just have to accept that that's the way Arya works, then. Thanks.

Could he he have preserved his life? Seems to me Robb was dead no matter what. There was no longer any way he could have won the war. His idea to attack Casterly Rock was a stupid one, and Catelyn even said so before letting her emotion get the better of her. If he had surrendered to the Lannisters, then he would have quickly had his head separated from his body. I suppose there was a chance that if he had decided to cut his losses and throw in with Stannis he might not have been executed. Would even the combined remainder of Stannis and Robb's forces be enough to threaten the Lannisters, though?

I think that was the case after he killed the Karstark (sp?) guy. The man told him to kill him and be cursed, and I think it was over after that. He'd done too much and made too many selfish mistakes at that point. Unlike his father, he didn't seem to understand people. I honestly think that's what cost him in the end. Both he and Theon tried to lead without really understanding it, imo.

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

Stannis is still out there. The alliance with the Tyrells is shaky. Dany has dragons and an army. The Others (White Walkers) are coming, eventually. The Brotherhood Without Banners is still on the loose. And of course, not all the Stark bannermen pulled a Roose Bolton and switched sides. The North remembers...

Stannis lost his battle already in Season 2. So he is out of the game for now.
Dany is also out of the game, her 3 trump cards are still too young.
The Brootherhood is just a small band of bandits, they aren't really in the game.

So who is still playing the game?

A Song of Ice and Fire is not about which king will sit on the Iron Throne. It was never really about Starks versus Lannisters. The main plot of the saga is introduced right at the beginning, the prologue in both books and TV show: Winter is coming. The Others, the White Walkers, the mythological creatures of the far north, have returned after millennia. All the fighting within the Seven Kingdoms is just a sideshow to what is really coming. Will the lords of Westeros wake from the bloodbath in time to unite against the true threat?

I think that's half of it. That's the ice part, but I think the fire part is the rest. Or, maybe it's Danearys and her dragons because the dragons can probably defeat the white walkers. Sam was able to kill one with dragon glass, and the only way to make sure that someone doesn't turn into one of them when they die is the burn them. I think that's what the ultimate showdown is going to be. Dragons vs. white walkers.

 

[Venardhi]

Gold star.

 

[Klaus]

That's been pretty plain from the start, that the whole point of this affair is to get us to the place where Dany's dragons can get to Westeros to save all of them from the walkers... the question is who will be riding alongside her?

 

[Dream]

You also have to be clever, resourceful, ruthless or any number of other things to stay alive. Ned and Robb let their honor get in the way and which lead to bad decision after bad decision. I had a hard time rooting for those two in the end.

Every single Lannister has been able to outsmart them; Tywin in the battlefield, Cersei having Ned arrested, Jaime looks to be on his way home after being captured for a year, and Tyrion managing to stay alive after being falsely accused and arrested by Cat.

 

[DalekJim]

Stannis lost his battle already in Season 2. So he is out of the game for now.

Stannis is easily the best candidate for sitting on the iron throne.

Ned and Robb let their honor get in the way and which lead to bad decision after bad decision.

Eh, not really? Robb died because of a vow he broke. Hardly Eddard level of honour. Robb had no way of seeing what was coming, unlike Eddard. The entirety of Westeros is stunned by it.

 

[Kelthaz]

Eh, not really? Robb died because of a vow he broke. Hardly Eddard level of honour. Robb had no way of seeing what was coming, unlike Eddard. The entirety of Westeros is stunned by it.

Robb knew that marrying Talisa meant losing the Frey men. Robb knew executing Rickard Karstark meant losing more of his men that he couldn't afford to lose. Robb had already defeated himself long before the Red Wedding.

 

[Dream]

Robb died because of a vow he broke. Hardly Eddard level of honour. Robb had no way of seeing what was coming, unlike Eddard. The entirety of Westeros is stunned by it.

He died for many reasons. He stupidly executed Karstark for killing the boys because of honor, which led to Robb losing much of his forces. He seems to have forgotten the Lannisters didn't play by the rules which they killed his father.

But Catelyn releasing Jaime was the final straw. I really doubt Tywin would have gone along with the Red Wedding if Jaime was still a hostage, and killed in retaliation.

 

[Venardhi]

Stannis lost his battle already in Season 2. So he is out of the game for now.

Stannis is easily the best candidate for sitting on the iron throne.

Ned and Robb let their honor get in the way and which lead to bad decision after bad decision.

Eh, not really? Robb died because of a vow he broke. Hardly Eddard level of honour. Robb had no way of seeing what was coming, unlike Eddard. The entirety of Westeros is stunned by it.

Spoiler: Book stuff. Probably not going to factor into the show.

Talisa's character is a replacement for Jeyne Westerling, his wife in the book. As Robb pressed forward into Westerlands (Lannister Territory) he took her family's lands and laid siege to their castle. Robb was wounded in the battle to take it and was lain up from his wounds for a while while they occupied it and regrouped.

Not knowing she was being used as a pawn, Jeyne was sent (by her Lannister-loyal family) to 'comfort' Robb as he recovered and afterwards Robb felt obligated to marry her lest he leave her dishonored.

Tywin either hatched the plan himself or had a hand in manipulating the situation very soon after it began, having been informed by Jeyne's father. Thus the plot to turn the Freys against him, the alliance with Bolton, etc. began.

Talisa may well have been an agent herself, killed along with the rest for what she knew and because she was carrying a Stark heir. I doubt it, but they may pull that out just to twist the knife next week.

But yes, he died for honor. In combination with being a stupid teenager (which is much more forgiving for the teenaged Robb in he book)

 

[Rulius]

Hopefully the Others will arrive south of the Wall and find that the humans have all killed themselves. The only character I see being invulnerable is Dany. Without her no dragons.

 

[Anwar]

Now, the Freys are placated, the Karstarks are revenged, and Roose Bolton is the big dog in the North. Not to mention the War of the Five Kings is basically over now.

It's even sweeter for Tywin. He set the Freys up perfectly, because the way they did things they broke the Guest Rite of Westeros and have disgraced their name for the rest of history. They took out HIS enemy, and in the process ruined themselves so everyone will blame them first and foremost and ignore Tywin as the main man behind it all. Tywin gets away with his name intact, the Freys are utterly screwed and will the the target of all revenge schemes from now on.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

He murdered her friend who was just unlucky enough to witness Joffrey's humiliation.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

He murdered her friend who was just unlucky enough to witness Joffrey's humiliation.

An adult who murders a child, her friend. Cut and dried.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

He murdered her friend who was just unlucky enough to witness Joffrey's humiliation.

An adult who murders a child, her friend. Cut and dried.

I have a hard time understanding people who don't get this. I mean even if we somehow ignore the "He is a child killer" thing, avenging a murdered friend is a pretty solid motive for most people for most of history.

 

[Venardhi]

Also remember how traumatic the last year or so has been for her. She has turned herself into who she thinks she needs to be to survive, and that person has a very strict (though still somewhat childlike) sense of right and wrong and who deserves life and death.

 

[The Lensman]

He murdered her friend who was just unlucky enough to witness Joffrey's humiliation.

An adult who murders a child, her friend. Cut and dried.

I have a hard time understanding people who don't get this. I mean even if we somehow ignore the "He is a child killer" thing, avenging a murdered friend is a pretty solid motive for most people for most of history.

For myself, I'd forgotten that he killed her friend and was wondering why she hated him so much. I've been wanting to re-watch season 1, but my brother has the discs.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

 

[Klaus]

^^

 

[Forbin]

I've watched every episode and I have no idea who Roose Bolton is. :/

 

[Miss Chicken]

I've watched every episode and I have no idea who Roose Bolton is. :/

He is the guy who Arya was a cupbearer to when she was at Harrenhal. He married one of Frey's grand-daughters (I can't remember if that fact made it on to the screen).