Galaxy class a failure?

[cwl]

In a space of 6 years Starfleet witnessed 3 leading ships of the fleet (Including the flagship) lost. The destruction of the Yamato(2365) & Odyssey(2370) was catastrophic. Starfleet's great humiliation was the destruction of the Enterprise(2371) when an obsolete BoP mortally wounded it. Fortunately the saucer section survived intact.

so was the galaxy class a failure?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Hi cwl,

There's just one scene... where the two Galaxy class ships pass by a Cardassian Galor class ship and destroy it. Very classic.

I remember reading somewhere that a flaw in the Galaxy class was that it had a tendency to explode too easily when certain areas where too damaged.

I also remember reading, though not sure if it's canon, that no Galaxy classes were lost during the Dominion war.

If it's true, Galaxys have proven their worth...

 

[Holder]

I also remember reading, though not sure if it's canon, that no Galaxy classes were lost during the Dominion war.

I am not sure, but I seem to remember some Galaxy class ships being destroyed in some of the fleet battle scenes in DS9. Again, I would not bet my life on it or anything.

 

[cwl]

well the Odyssey was technically destroyed before the Dominion War- but it was destroyed by the Dominion. A bugship ploughed straight into it's stardrive section with catastrophic results.

 

[SilentP]

Having a vessel ram your engineering section at a significant fraction of c is likely to ruin any starship's day :P

EDIT: The thing is, how do we class the Galaxy as a failure? It's survival rate? It's ability to peform any missions assigned to it? As a symbol of the philosophy and strength of the Federation? It's ability to fight? We need to be sure exactly what the question asks, before we can actually answer it.

 

[cwl]

Having a vessel ram your engineering section at a significant fraction of c is likely to ruin any starship's day :P

yep but it's kinda embarrassing when the biggest & baddest ship in starfleet is destroyed by a bugship.

 

[Picard Alpha]

In a space of 6 years Starfleet witnessed 3 leading ships of the fleet (Including the flagship) lost. The destruction of the Yamato(2365) & Odyssey(2370) was catastrophic. Starfleet's great humiliation was the destruction of the Enterprise(2371) when an obsolete BoP mortally wounded it. Fortunately the saucer section survived intact.

so was the galaxy class a failure?

I don't think the Galaxy Class is perceived as a failure. The destruction of the Yamato was caused by the Iconian (virus) software which led to a catastrophic antimatter containment failure. The magnetic seals around the dilithium chamber collapsed, and the computer initiated the emergency release system to dump the Yamato's supply of antimatter. However, the Iconian program caused the release to halt with antimatter remaining within the ship, resulting in a warp core breach. Yamato was lost with all hands. I'd say if anything Starfleet engineers should be to blame for the fact that their antivirus updates weren't up to par. I'm sure other Galaxy's downloaded the virus and spyware updates after this incident however.

Odyssey was under attack by the Jem'Hadar. They were firing phased polaron beams which were ripping straight though her shields. Realizing shields were useless the Captain ordered that all power to shields be diverted to phaser systems and attempted to continue the campaign and draw fire from the sissy runabouts flying around his bows. Unfortunately his command was taken from him as a Jem'Hadar vessel flew into his secondary hull at full impulse power. I don't think any vessel in the same situation (aside from the magical Voyager of course) could have survived this kind of direct hit. Obviously a direct hit to the engineering section (maybe even warp core) immediately caused a boom. When the captain realized his shields were useless he should have transported the runabouts into his shuttle bay and retreated back to Deep Space Nine and brought in reinforcements. However his warp nacelle was damaged, and its possible he thought retreat past a certain point was impossible. Perhaps he honestly believed he could do some damage... No one knows. If it were me, given the situation I would have ordered Odyssey about and gotten the hell out of there until I figured out why in the hell their weapons were ripping straight through one of the Federations strongest Starships.

As for Enterprise, aside from the real world explination of the producers not wanting to carry on the lineage through the motion picture franchise lets take a look at what happened. Cmdr. LaForge is returned to the Enterprise carrying a spy camera in his sunglasses. Doctor Crusher unknowingly doesn't seem to give his visor a look over and releases him to the ships populous, where he eventually makes it to engineering looks at the right council and gives the shield codes over to the Klingon sisters (Starfleet would later punish LaForge by making him get eye implants, j.k, but you never know...) The Klingons fire on the Enterprise ripping straight through her shields, and Commander Riker (usually quite witty and smart) seems unable to ascertain those emergency shields modulation rotations that Starfleet installed should the Enterprise warp in front of a cube again. Once again... one good hit to the engineering section and wam.

Perhaps the only thing wrong with the Galaxy Class was someone kept forgeting to install a Warp Core ditching system that would practically work. After a lot of trials and errors I'm sure they eventually put some brains together and figured out a good solid way to eject a warp core. Seeing as how we've seen the Intrepid and Sovereign class eject successfully, the sacrifices made by the Galaxy Class seems to have paid off. Lets not forget all of those warp cores that ejected from the Constitution class in the latest film... Hmmm..

I rest my long case.

The Galaxy Class rocked! It's to bad the producers didn't want the old bird flying through FC, INS, and NEM... I think she was a fine ship! They always said one of the biggest characters in Star Trek was the Enterprise, and they destroyed her right in front of us! Which was the bigger character assassination, James T. Kirk, or Enterprise 1701-D?

 

[Picard Alpha]

For some reason it double posted after I hit my back button! Oh the interwebs!

 

[Peter the Younger]

Logically, no, it isn't a failure. But if, say, any military vehicle of the modern U.S. armed forces had the same sort of record, you can bet the designers would get called to testify on Capitol Hill. In other words, politically it doesn't look good.

You might say that the explosion of other ship designs we see later was an attempt by Starfleet to hedge their bets a bit.

 

[cwl]

a good post there picard alpha. the vulnerability seems to be the warp core.

 

[Vanyel]

The only problem I saw with the Galaxy Class, 1701D mainly, was that it's cooling system tended to fail. (i.e. Yesterday's Enterprise & Generations) Otherwise they were fine ships that died only in extreme circumstances, and even in my cooling system failure examples the ships were under extreme circumstances.

Were they a failure? No.

Were they put in situations where they were pushed to, and beyond, their limits? Yes.

 

[cwl]

obsolete Bird of Prey vs Galaxy class

btw didn't the BoPs shields hold up well?

 

[miraclefan]

Logically, no, it isn't a failure. But if, say, any military vehicle of the modern U.S. armed forces had the same sort of record, you can bet the designers would get called to testify on Capitol Hill. In other words, politically it doesn't look good.

EXACTLY! that's why I think we saw such an increase in smaller more mission specific vessels, like the AKIRA (war) NOVA (science) DEFIANT (escort/ battleship) INTREPID (exploritory) SF could not afford to lose another BIG mother ship like the GALAXY again! Can you imagine how the MEDIA must have hounded down Starfleet admirals asking why they seemed to keep loosing there best & safest(remember families are suposed to be own board) ships? It's not good PR people!

 

[cwl]

so basically the Galaxy class is a failure^

 

[miraclefan]

so basically the Galaxy class is a failure^

It might explain why they didn't refit them! However there is the VENTURE type variant of the GALAXY! That was the ship we mostly saw in DS9 not the original GALAXY! my geuss is that the galaxy WAS a good design, but in order to fight in the war they kept the overall shape of the galaxy, but gave it stronger shilds & weapons systems, this is where I belive the VENTURE class came in. Now you may ask, why didn't they just make a new design for the venture? Because they had already made the saucer sactions & probibly still had a a ton of galaxy frames(skeletons) that they had to use.

 

[Middle Earther]

I thought the idea of Galaxy class was with having whole families aboard and that concept was abandoned when space just got too dangerous, especially after the introduction of the Borg. The class itself was fine, but the practicality was, if you have no families, then you don't need as much space.

 

[cwl]

perhaps the Venture had a different role. Externally she's is almost identical to the original Galaxy, internally however the HUGE volume could be gutted and used quite differently.

Cargo, troop transport, hospital ship even.

with upgraded shields and extra phasers the Venture variant would still be a powerful vessel.

it's all speculation of course but I'd like to think the large size of the galaxy was put to a more efficient role by starfleet.

 

[miraclefan]

perhaps the Venture had a different role. Externally she's is almost identical to the original Galaxy, internally however the HUGE volume could be gutted and used quite differently.

Cargo, troop transport, hospital ship even.

with upgraded shields and extra phasers the Venture variant would still be a powerful vessel.

That's what I belive the VENTURE variant was.

 

[Vanyel]

obsolete Bird of Prey vs Galaxy class

btw didn't the BoPs shields hold up well?

Yeah sounds kind of wrong but I think I make a good argument in the The Enetrprise D's Record of Battles thread.

You know there might be some circumstantial evidence that explains why the Duras sisters attack worked.

They did have an eye in the 1701D's Engineering section via LaForge's VISOR, so they could very well have been changing their their weapons to match the 1701D's shields and protecting themselves in the process every time the 1701D changed its shield frequency.

When they matched the shield frequency of the 1701D, the BoP shields also had to be at that frequency to allow their weapons to pass through. LaForge or Worf could have been rotating their shield frequency which would also change their weapons frequency. The BoP's shields, being at a different frequency would then be able to block the incoming fire. Once LaForge glanced at any station displaying the new shield frequency the Duras sisters could match them again and fire. The 1701D would change her frequency and the pattern would repeat.

That sort of relies on Geordi staring over at the shield frequency indicator the entire time.

At the very least any console that shows the ships shield frequency. And a quick glance is all that is needed. LaForge's VISOR see's most everything, so glance and enhance and boom shields might as well be down.

I was watching the battle in Generations on YouTube. More circumstantial evidence is presented.

The Klingons fire there weapons in bursts. Then they seem to stop firing for a moment. Or the 1701D is hit, but the ship is seen to shudder under the impact. This could be interpreted as the 1701D changing its shield frequency, and the Klingon weapons impacting the shields. The Duras sisters could also be waiting for their next opportunity to reset their weapons to the new frequency. Also if the 1701D's shields are being hit, it could provide a bit of cover for their eyes in engineering.

Then one of the Klingons tells the sisters that their shields are holding. This would seem to imply that the 1701D was firing its weapons. It's at this point that the Duras sisters decide to target the bridge, in essence trying to take out the bridge before someone caught on to what their advantage was.

I wish I knew how to be able to quote a post with a link that shows only the individual post so I don't have to do all this copy and pasting. If any one could tell me how please send a PM.

Back to the topic.

That's why I think the 1701D was pushed beyond its limits and lost. Too many hits and the Duras Sisters were clever enough to hide their advantage for a bit before preparing to strike a death blow.

I hope I didn't push this topic too far off course.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know I also think that Starfleet improved the Venture's engineering hull because it looked like during the war in took damage that would have made a regular galaxy explode i.e. the defector area being trashed.