FX/editing wishlist/technical/related discussion for STNG-R
- Thread starter RAMA
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Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
The directors and cinematographers working on TNG constructed their shots for a 4:3 aspect ratio. If you want to take it to 16:9, you can only do that in one of two ways -- either you chop off some of the top and bottom of each scene or you include things outside the original border of the frame that were never meant to be included in the shot. Either way, you totally change the director's construction of the scene.
To me, doing TNG in 16:9 would be no different than taking a feature film and doing it pan-and-scan. Both destroy the original image and both are unacceptable.
No. No, no, no. Do not re-format TNG to 16:9.
The directors and cinematographers working on TNG constructed their shots for a 4:3 aspect ratio. If you want to take it to 16:9, you can only do that in one of two ways -- either you chop off some of the top and bottom of each scene or you include things outside the original border of the frame that were never meant to be included in the shot. Either way, you totally change the director's construction of the scene.
To me, doing TNG in 16:9 would be no different than taking a feature film and doing it pan-and-scan. Both destroy the original image and both are unacceptable.
YARN
Fleet Captain
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
First of all, respectfully, LOL.
Second, your supporting statement in your original post is only half right. Yes, "They knew the cash-cow possibilities of Star Trek by 1987." Then again, they also knew apparent cash cows sometimes turn into money pits. As for, "they'd want to preserve that material for future use" you are ascribing predictive powers to these people which goes well beyond what they could have been expected to anticipate at the time. When TNG was on the air the post-series game plan was syndication, spin-off series, merchandising, video sales, and movies. At the time, 480p was the standard and these episodes were created for televisions of the time. From their point of view, the final episodes (which were edited on video) were the finished product - and they were right; they were and still are the finished product. Their main concern would have been to preserve the video, which they did.
It is ridiculous to assume that they did or should have known that they would need to preserve ALL of the original film elements of the show so that twenty years later they could be reprocessed, reedited, and given new FX shots to meet a standard which did not exist at the time.
First of all, respectfully, LOL.
Second, your supporting statement in your original post is only half right. Yes, "They knew the cash-cow possibilities of Star Trek by 1987." Then again, they also knew apparent cash cows sometimes turn into money pits. As for, "they'd want to preserve that material for future use" you are ascribing predictive powers to these people which goes well beyond what they could have been expected to anticipate at the time. When TNG was on the air the post-series game plan was syndication, spin-off series, merchandising, video sales, and movies. At the time, 480p was the standard and these episodes were created for televisions of the time. From their point of view, the final episodes (which were edited on video) were the finished product - and they were right; they were and still are the finished product. Their main concern would have been to preserve the video, which they did.
It is ridiculous to assume that they did or should have known that they would need to preserve ALL of the original film elements of the show so that twenty years later they could be reprocessed, reedited, and given new FX shots to meet a standard which did not exist at the time.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
I would love to see all of TNG look like it did in "Generations" but more specifically, I want to see more people and aliens on the Enterprise. I think the Ten-Forward scene in TNG looked really great and so maybe adding more background characters would make the show more interesting, visually.
I would love to see all of TNG look like it did in "Generations" but more specifically, I want to see more people and aliens on the Enterprise. I think the Ten-Forward scene in TNG looked really great and so maybe adding more background characters would make the show more interesting, visually.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
But that's not going to happen, because adding CGI aliens into the background is not what the remastering is for. It's for replacing all the original VFX work with updated effects for an HD broadcast.
But that's not going to happen, because adding CGI aliens into the background is not what the remastering is for. It's for replacing all the original VFX work with updated effects for an HD broadcast.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
Ships have inertia in a video game.
^^ Man, does that look shitty! And the Klingon disrupters look like a video game. The whole thing looks like a video cheesy game.
Ships have inertia in a video game.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
It was hugely successful, creatively, technically, and financially. It revived interest in TOS when it was completely dead on tv and led to a resurgence of interest within the studio, which ultimately led to ST09.
RAMA
It was hugely successful, creatively, technically, and financially. It revived interest in TOS when it was completely dead on tv and led to a resurgence of interest within the studio, which ultimately led to ST09.
RAMA
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
I didn't say "CG aliens", just adding more background characters so we get a little more atmosphere.
I didn't say "CG aliens", just adding more background characters so we get a little more atmosphere.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
Agreed, but even with its limited purview, TOS-R still took the time to fix some "mistakes". I'm not even thinking too much about adding a lot of extra footage, Armus for example will already have to be in the episode, and the Jarada are talked about but I'd love a quick look on the view screen in place of the planet view...pretty quick and simple...minor roto-scoping involved. Now add to this...the fact that like "STTMP's Director's cut, they took the time to also fix mistakes and add some footage that did not change the plot, but added to the richness of the story told...Like STTM: DE they have concepts that were ALREADY designed by the original team that can be used...Armus by Probert exists:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/_...lpha/en/images/4/4c/Probert_Armus_concept.jpg
AND this:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x13/biggoodbye217.jpg
Agreed, but even with its limited purview, TOS-R still took the time to fix some "mistakes". I'm not even thinking too much about adding a lot of extra footage, Armus for example will already have to be in the episode, and the Jarada are talked about but I'd love a quick look on the view screen in place of the planet view...pretty quick and simple...minor roto-scoping involved. Now add to this...the fact that like "STTMP's Director's cut, they took the time to also fix mistakes and add some footage that did not change the plot, but added to the richness of the story told...Like STTM: DE they have concepts that were ALREADY designed by the original team that can be used...Armus by Probert exists:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/_...lpha/en/images/4/4c/Probert_Armus_concept.jpg
AND this:
So it WAS planned but the planet view was added instead cause they couldn't afford it. I think this may add to validity of putting it back in...
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x13/biggoodbye217.jpg
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
Ok I was WRONG! I want ONE major addition NEVER seen in STNG!!! Cetacean Ops!!
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cetacean_Ops
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/tng_2.php
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/images/TNG/Aquatics.jpg
Designed by Probert!!
RAMA
Ok I was WRONG! I want ONE major addition NEVER seen in STNG!!! Cetacean Ops!!
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cetacean_Ops
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/tng_2.php
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/images/TNG/Aquatics.jpg
Designed by Probert!!
RAMA
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
With the new Armus, we might have to give Councilor Troi a new costume too.
With the new Armus, we might have to give Councilor Troi a new costume too.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
You make this very hard to object to!!!!
Damn I need to go to more conventions, its been 17 years since I've gone to one. I don't remember anyone looking like that.
You make this very hard to object to!!!!
Damn I need to go to more conventions, its been 17 years since I've gone to one. I don't remember anyone looking like that.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
*I would certainly agree to fixing the matte paintings to be more 'alive' - add moving clouds, birds/avian creatures, background people in wide shots for planetscapes;
*make the soundstage backgrounds look like planets rather than colored backdrops;
*edit Best of Both Worlds into a 2 hour movie, with all new ships and possibly add the battle scene, but definitely release that into theaters to build interest in the remastering and blu-ray sets.
*more varied E-D shots like they did with TOS-R, and replace that one 'through the neck' shot they used every single episode that made it look like the Enterprise was flying at a stinking angle. Never use that shot again.
*more varied ships, not just the Excelsior and Bird of Prey.
*Fix all the planets to look more realistic, moving clouds, weather, moons, etc.
*naturally, upscaling to 1080p, but not cropping to 16:9. I don't mind them compositing the FX in widescreen, but unless we get all the picture we saw originally on TV, no cropping. And widescreen only if the original film will allow it to show without any microphones or whatever in the way.
*re-rotoscope the viewscreen with better imagery
*change all the LCARS displays on closeups so they don't look so obviously matted in
*add some more movement and animation on LCARS displays, perhaps even in the backgrounds while the crew sit and talk, so that the displays look like they really do something.
*the torpedo phaser from Darmok
*I would certainly agree to fixing the matte paintings to be more 'alive' - add moving clouds, birds/avian creatures, background people in wide shots for planetscapes;
*make the soundstage backgrounds look like planets rather than colored backdrops;
*edit Best of Both Worlds into a 2 hour movie, with all new ships and possibly add the battle scene, but definitely release that into theaters to build interest in the remastering and blu-ray sets.
*more varied E-D shots like they did with TOS-R, and replace that one 'through the neck' shot they used every single episode that made it look like the Enterprise was flying at a stinking angle. Never use that shot again.
*more varied ships, not just the Excelsior and Bird of Prey.
*Fix all the planets to look more realistic, moving clouds, weather, moons, etc.
*naturally, upscaling to 1080p, but not cropping to 16:9. I don't mind them compositing the FX in widescreen, but unless we get all the picture we saw originally on TV, no cropping. And widescreen only if the original film will allow it to show without any microphones or whatever in the way.
*re-rotoscope the viewscreen with better imagery
*change all the LCARS displays on closeups so they don't look so obviously matted in
*add some more movement and animation on LCARS displays, perhaps even in the backgrounds while the crew sit and talk, so that the displays look like they really do something.
*the torpedo phaser from Darmok
number6
Vice Admiral
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
They didn't, but they gave birth to daughters that do!!
You make this very hard to object to!!!!
Damn I need to go to more conventions, its been 17 years since I've gone to one. I don't remember anyone looking like that.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
I really love these suggestions but the one that intrigues me the most is making BOBW's into a movie. I'm not exactly sure how that could be done given the cliff hanging nature of part I but I'm sure it would rock.
Actually, I remember "Highlander" the series did something similar with "Finale" part I & II. They made those two episodes into a two-hour TV movie and the results were pretty impressive. Now obviously TNG is a different bag of hammers but it's not as if something like this hasn't been done before.
I really love these suggestions but the one that intrigues me the most is making BOBW's into a movie. I'm not exactly sure how that could be done given the cliff hanging nature of part I but I'm sure it would rock.
Actually, I remember "Highlander" the series did something similar with "Finale" part I & II. They made those two episodes into a two-hour TV movie and the results were pretty impressive. Now obviously TNG is a different bag of hammers but it's not as if something like this hasn't been done before.
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
A thought just occurred to me, are there any effects that could make "Shades Of Grey" less painful?
A thought just occurred to me, are there any effects that could make "Shades Of Grey" less painful?
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?
All I'm assuming is that when Paramount put the original negatives in storage -- immediately after they scanned them for editing on video, according to The Making of Star Trek Deep Space Nine -- that their storage methods were good enough that in the 18-25 years they've been in the Paramount archive they won't have significantly degraded. That the original film negatives were put into storage after scanning isn't supposition, it's fact.
That the film has probably been preserved is hardly a laughable assumption, or even an unlikely one. To believe that Paramount would throw out the best preservation medium for the series that they had (35mm) in favor of video masters, however, is laughable (alternate response, if true: tears). I believe Mike Okuda confirmed relatively recently that the TNG negatives still exist and have been stored properly, though my memory could be incorrect.
All I'm assuming is that when Paramount put the original negatives in storage -- immediately after they scanned them for editing on video, according to The Making of Star Trek Deep Space Nine -- that their storage methods were good enough that in the 18-25 years they've been in the Paramount archive they won't have significantly degraded. That the original film negatives were put into storage after scanning isn't supposition, it's fact.
That the film has probably been preserved is hardly a laughable assumption, or even an unlikely one. To believe that Paramount would throw out the best preservation medium for the series that they had (35mm) in favor of video masters, however, is laughable (alternate response, if true: tears). I believe Mike Okuda confirmed relatively recently that the TNG negatives still exist and have been stored properly, though my memory could be incorrect.
