Future of the Defiant (class) post Nemesis

[hellsgate]

I could see a modest refit or two.

The HORNET-CLASS.

Secondly, the Tholians are "extremely xenophobic. It's extremely unusual to see them this far from their homeworld" - T'Pol, "Star Trek: Enterprise".

The Gorn aren't interested in mindless blow-em-up grabs for large slabs of territory. They conduct themselves by a Klingon-like code of conduct. The last I heard, they're allies of the Federation. They might set-down & colonize a few planets with plentiful plant & animal life compatible with their ritual "hunts" I've read about in the Trek comics but only if they notice that the Federation isn't interested in it, due to distance from their border or whatever.

The Syndicates (Androssi, Orion, et al,) aren't interested in stepping things up from non-state to state actors. They're in the business for bloodwine, women & bragging rights.

They'd be perfectly comfortable with picking off the occasional Jem Hadar bug-fighter at their door like shooing away Jehovah's Witnesses, simply for the practice.

But, if you were a member of the syndicate would you want to antagonize the (vague) possibility of the state actors (momentarily) cooperating with each other, arriving at your door en-masse & cleaning house, before going back to business as usual?

Plus, as a member of Starfleet Intelligence would you want to antagonize the Syndicate's hired guns (aka "Informants") to volunteer sensitive information to enemy interrogators or new employers about past loose associations with Starfleet or others & set back relations however many years?

 

[Sci]

hellsgate said:
Secondly, the Tholians are "extremely xenophobic. It's extremely unusual to see them this far from their homeworld" - T'Pol, "Star Trek: Enterprise".

A description like that is incredibly ambiguous and open to multiple interpretations. They're xenophobic and therefore they very rarely leave Tholia? Or they're xenophobic and seek to dominate other races, but they haven't come out this far yet? Plus, y'know, ENT's around two hundred years out of date for DS9-era info.

The Gorn aren't interested in mindless blow-em-up grabs for large slabs of territory. They conduct themselves by a Klingon-like code of conduct.

And where was that established?

The last I heard, they're allies of the Federation. They might set-down & colonize a few planets with plentiful plant & animal life compatible with their ritual "hunts" I've read about in the Trek comics but only if they notice that the Federation isn't interested in it, due to distance from their border or whatever.

I can't speak to the depiction of the Gorn in the recent IDW comics, but while some of the novels have referred to the Hegemony joining the Allies during the war after a coup, the key phrase there is "after a coup." The Gorn Hegemony is obviously not a stable state; further, wartime alliances are not a guarantee of permanent friendship. Italy turned against the other Allies after World War I, let us recall.

The Syndicates (Androssi, Orion, et al,) aren't interested in stepping things up from non-state to state actors. They're in the business for bloodwine, women & bragging rights.

I can't speak to the Androssi, since I haven't read any of the novels featuring them, but you're completely mischaracterizing the Orion Syndicate. The OS is an organized crime organization -- it's the interstellar mafia. And like any costra nostra, its goal is to make money. And if that means, for instance, say, selling advanced quantum torpedo technology to the highest bidder after they illegally salvage it from the site of a major Dominion War battle before the Federates are able to move in and recover their equipment? It's not something they'd hesitate to do.

I'm not saying that they're looking to become state actors -- but that doesn't mean that logic wouldn't suggest that they'd represent a significant security threat.

But, if you were a member of the syndicate would you want to antagonize the (vague) possibility of the state actors (momentarily) cooperating with each other, arriving at your door en-masse & cleaning house, before going back to business as usual?

And what exactly would prompt them to do this? What if the Syndicate is selling classified Federation technology to the Romulans, or an illegal Klingon subspace weapon to the Federation? Or what if they're, for instance, selling Romulan thalaron radiation technology to the Tzenkethi?

And what makes you think taht the Orion Syndicate has an infrastructure that's centralized enough for it to even be possible for people to "clean house?" The United States and Italy have been dealing with the Mafia for over a century, but even their most vigorous attempts have been unable to rid their societies of that particular organized criminal institution.

Plus, as a member of Starfleet Intelligence would you want to antagonize the Syndicate's hired guns (aka "Informants") to volunteer sensitive information to enemy interrogators or new employers about past loose associations with Starfleet or others & set back relations however many years?

What makes you think Starfleet Intelligence is making those kinds of policy decisions? That's the sort of thing that the Federation President and Council decide, not SI.

 

[Timo]

The Defiant design could be a pretty good analogue to USS Monitor. A radical departure implemented to counter a very specific problem, found surprisingly useful, and then perpetuated for a multitude of tasks where it severely underperformed. The nascent US Navy was encumbered early on with a fleet of monitors that were no good in bluewater operations and in fact severly hindered technological progress on proper high seas combatants.

And a major shortcoming with the monitors was their poor seakeeping, analogous to the low warp speed of the Defiant. Other matching aliments would include poor accommodation resulting in poor endurance; limited scope of main armament; reliance on armor, low profile and close-quarters fighting against long range firepower; and early problems with an oversized power system.

I could see Starfleet churning out additional Defiants and minor modifications thereof during the immediate postwar period, then. And then scrapping them all in disgust when the means were finally developed to install the positive aspects aboard the far more practical "standard" starships, or aboard an all-new breed of starships combining the best of both worlds.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fleetcaptain]

I think that the Defiant class will be around until the 25th century. I mean even through in First Contact she didn't show as being tough as she was suppose to be against the Borg, doesn't mean anything. That was the first test against the Borg that the Defiant ever had in the first place. I think once Starfleet saw the results, they improved them over time, just like with the updates from the Dominion War.

 

[Braxton]

fleetcaptain said:
I think that the Defiant class will be around until the 25th century. I mean even through in First Contact she didn't show as being tough as she was suppose to be against the Borg, doesn't mean anything. That was the first test against the Borg that the Defiant ever had in the first place. I think once Starfleet saw the results, they improved them over time, just like with the updates from the Dominion War.

The Defiant took one hell of a beating against the Borg and survived, while most of the battles seen in DS9 did not show this kind of damage. Only when the Defiant was hit by the Breen energy dissipater did it look as bad, if not worse, than what we saw in First Contact. It survived its encounter with the Borg. It may not have been as successful as they like in terms of offensive capabilities when fighting the Borg, but it managed to stay in the battle that began in the Typhon Sector.


xen·o·pho·bi·a
–noun
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

That definition doesn't say 'we fear you, so we'll just sit here in our territory while you sit in yours, and we won't say a word'. The Tholians may be xenophobic but that doesn't mean they'd ignore a chance to assert themselves. Starting something after the Dominion War would be a logical thing to do. Those you fear are weak and are not looking for another war, this would be the best time to strike. Of course, we know this didn't happen, at least not by 2380 (when Nemesis takes place).

It is unknown whether the Gorn are allies of the Federation or not.