Fundamentally Important Aspects of ST Even Fans Misunderstand

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

In STV, Kirk sits on a toilet that slides out from the wall in the brig. In "Breaking The Ice" (ENT) Trip answers a student's question about where the poop goes on the NX-01, and in "Observer Effect" Hoshi vomits in the decon chamber's toilet. There are definitely toilets even if they aren't shown frequently. And why would they be?

 

[JeffinOakland]

In STV, Kirk sits on a toilet that slides out from the wall in the brig. In "Breaking The Ice" (ENT) Trip answers a student's question about where the poop goes on the NX-01, and in "Observer Effect" Hoshi vomits in the decon chamber's toilet. There are definitely toilets even if they aren't shown frequently. And why would they be?

No, really, its ok to not actually show people actually shitting, pissing, vomiting, picking their nose, masturbating or fucking on national tv. We can just assume. Not showing it is not an oversight.

 

[Vandervecken]

This is why the Klingons looked different in TOS.

Ahem. The Klingons look different in TNG etc.

This is why the Borg never attacked en masse even on the big screen.

Are you sure of this, I mean is this something known? It's just that I wouldn't think First Contact's budget wouldn't have been able to pay for a CGI mass Borg attack, there I think it's more that the writers couldn't figure a good way out of that without having some main characters killed at the least.

 

[Greg Cox]

No, really, its ok to not actually show people actually shitting, pissing, vomiting, picking their nose, masturbating or fucking on national tv. We can just assume. Not showing it is not an oversight.

Depends on the plot, genre, and audience.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Depends on the plot, genre, and audience.

Don't get technical with me. You know what I meant.

 

[Arpy]

Ahem. The Klingons look different in TNG etc.

They look different in TOS movies first, and characters from that era seen on other shows are shown with foreheads. Early Klingons from Khaless to those on ENT have the foreheads. It's just TOS that look different, and I can't imagine folks watching it first run weren't thinking how mad TV makeup is that they can't do more than bronzer and hair pasties.

Are you sure of this, I mean is this something known? It's just that I wouldn't think First Contact's budget wouldn't have been able to pay for a CGI mass Borg attack, there I think it's more that the writers couldn't figure a good way out of that without having some main characters killed at the least.

Trek hadn't gotten the Star Wars, lord of the Rings, Matrix, etc budgets as other big summer blockbusters. They were Paramount's meager cashcow that was trusted to bring money in without rocking the boat too much. Pay a good team well enough, and they'll present to you any story.

 

[Griffeytrek]

The science isn't real. Stop trying to figure it out.

The Economics aren't real. Stop trying to figure them out! They are as believable as Warp Drive.

 

[Griffeytrek]

In addition to there being no money, there also are no toilets. Socially evolved Humanity doesn't poop.

actually this one is untrue. Toilets come up a number of times in several incarnations of Trek.
- In Star Trek V Kirk is seen sitting on a toilet in the brig. There is a sign next to it instructing occupants to not use it while in spacedock
- Deep Space 9, true to it's name, has a deep exploration of 24th century toiletries scattered throughout its run. They are called "Waste Disposal Units". Much of Rom's character arc involves him being the guy who has to muck them out and solve their problems. He is the night shift toilet repair guy. And keep in mind this is a huge step up in escaping the "ick!" factor of his previous job. Being the guy who had to mop out Quark's Holosuites the morning after.
- In Star Trek Enterprise there is an actual video presentation given by Trip, to a group of schoolchildren back on earth, all about how the toilets on the NX-01 work. Clearly mimicking many NASA question and answer sessions with school groups. It's a long scene. He goes into great detail. Far more than is actually needed.

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet is a military organization. It's just a more casual one than the ones we have today.

Amen.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Ahem. The Klingons look different in TNG etc.



Are you sure of this, I mean is this something known? It's just that I wouldn't think First Contact's budget wouldn't have been able to pay for a CGI mass Borg attack, there I think it's more that the writers couldn't figure a good way out of that without having some main characters killed at the least.

The original plans for First Contact as written were that the Battle of Sector 001 was a wide ranging one spread across space. A major Borg incursion with a hundred or so Cubes facing hundreds of Starfleet ships. This one is known. Ron Moore has said as much. He's the one that wrote it. It clearly got cut so they could put the budget elsewhere. Also remember that First Contact was the last Practical Effects Star Trek movie. Much of the effects were still done with traditional models. While some ships were CGI they were largely the 4 new briefly scene Starfleet ships, and possibly the Defiant? I can't remember if they used the filming model for the movie or if they went and cleaned up and upgraded the CGI model at that time. But yeah Budget was still a huge concern. Which honestly often works as an effective editor. At the end of the day you only pay for what is really important to your story. You parse out all the unneeded fluff until you are left with only the truly crucial stuff that you can afford. In First Contact they needed the one Borg ship to move the story. Everything else was just expensive visual spectacle for limited story purpose.

 

[Tenacity]

No, really, its ok to not actually show people actually shitting, pissing, vomiting ...

Apparently you've forgotten the ground breaking fourth season Voyager episode "Two Girls, One Cup."

 

[JeffinOakland]

Apparently you've forgotten the ground breaking fourth season Voyager episode "Two Girls, One Cup."

Ah yes. How could I forget? A classic in any genre

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Indeed.

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[Vandervecken]

They look different in TOS movies first, and characters from that era seen on other shows are shown with foreheads. Early Klingons from Khaless to those on ENT have the foreheads. It's just TOS that look different, and I can't imagine folks watching it first run weren't thinking how mad TV makeup is that they can't do more than bronzer and hair pasties.

My (very small) point is that because TOS IS first, it is the Kiingons in the movies and in later series, starting with Mark Leonard's battlecrusier commander in TMP, who are the different ones. THEY differ from TOS, not the other way around. The first series has the first position for any such relative statement. Even if people thought the makeup job was poor at the time of first showing, the fact that TOS is first is unchanged. This little observation doesn't affect the meat of your earlier point at all, though.

I never felt the way you say about the Klingon makeup when I first saw TOS in the 70s in syndication, though (I can remember seeing a few eps in first run, flashes of child memory). Basically I remember loving everything.

Oh wait, I do remember thinking Mara's eye makeup in Day of the Dove was overwrought, I mean the feminine makeup she had, not her Klingon makeup. Not the same thing, though.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Is it true that the Klingon look was updated over time because many fans thought they looked "too Asian" in TOS and could be perceived as racially insensitive?

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's all made up and the points don't matter.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Over the last few weeks, I've noticed that even some longtime forum posters misunderstand these two things that are, I think, crucial to understanding and appreciating ST.

What other fundamentally important aspects of ST crucial to a basic understanding of ST do you see fans misunderstanding?

I am amused that this thread appears to be based upon some premise that there is a fundamentally 'correct' way to interpret ST [which the OP seems to hold the keys to], which is [somehow] crucial to a "basic understanding" of ST.

This thread alone is full of people claiming fundamentally opposing views on these 'basic' things that need to be understood.

[We have the: Starfleet IS a military/Starfleet is NOT a military, Moneey exists in ST/Money doesn't exists in ST etc]

I am unconvinced it is the role of any fan to determine what are 'fundamentally important aspects' of the entire franchise that all others must adhere to. That "...crucial to a basic understanding of ST..." seems dangerously dogmatic in my eyes. All it does is welcome people to post opinions and portray them as facts.

On an unrelated note, what does "1. ST is not a utopia. It presents a hopeful future where most of today's problems have been resolved and humanity has evolved to tackle other problems." actually mean?

"ST is not a utopia"...do you mean Earth? The Federation?

 

[Forbin]

Is it true that the Klingon look was updated over time because many fans thought they looked "too Asian" in TOS and could be perceived as racially insensitive?

I believe the intent was to evoke the image of Gengis Khan and rampaging Mongol Hordes™.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I believe the intent was to evoke the image of Gengis Khan and rampaging Mongol Hordes™.

originally...but they backed off from that, right?

 

[Tenacity]

I am unconvinced it is the role of any fan to determine ...

Of course we don't, no official power what so ever. I'm of the impression that no one here is under any illusions concerning this.

However this is a discussion site, and that is what we're engaged in, discussion. Discussion of observations that we have all made over the years of both the shows and our fellow fans. Articles in magazine, fanzies, threads on many dozens of websites and hundreds of thousand of posts.